TBH Leo i'd be of the same mine if i had an Audi. Plenty of options in that space so it seems odd they're trying to make an appearance in the Audi scene, however they're doing the same with BMW M's as they have an M4 Development Car they've claimed some decent results on. Not earth shattering but decent enough, however the supporting detail is lacking & only headline figures (think their was an article in their M4 in some magazine a few months ago.Leo-RS wrote:Hi Paul,
Litchfield's are frustrating as everything is all over the place, I have spoken to Iain numerous times but he lacks enthusiasm for RS6 tuning and I'd be surprised if he's actually mapped any other than his own.
The stage numbers do not fit in with the VAG tuning scene,
Stage 1 is software only
Stage 2 is software + bolt ons
Stage 3 is hybrid turbo/big turbo.
There's no reason for his 'Stage 2' and 'Stage 3' packages, his Stage 3 is everyone else's Stage 2 and his Stage 2 is not required, it's a Stage 1.
There's not a hope in hell that software only is 650hp and then software + catback exhaust is 730hp. I had a lengthy conversation on the phone and he agreed with me and said he would update his website, that was about 9 months ago now. It just shows a lack of enthusiasm and professionalism to be honest.
He has not provided any dyno runs or charts for his 750hp claim either, (even though I have requested) nor have I seen any for the intermediate steps, software only or software only + catback.
It's near on impossible to get hold of him and when you do, it's a case of I'll phone you back and update you. (Never of course phoning back)
He has Akra catback and 90mm custom made downpipes on his car, as far as I'm aware no other power enhancing modifications.
As to your point reference downpipes, it's a mute point, if you fit the decatted downpipes YOU MUST get your car Stage 2 tuned otherwise it will be running like a bag of spanners and will produce an engine management light, it would screw up the fuelling big time. However, yes, the MRC Stage 1 to Stage 2 tune gains of 50hp are from the downpipes + the adapted map, not just the downpipes alone.
MRC have dyno'd quite a few cars now with the Milltek catback fitted and tune (So Lichfields 'Stage 2') and the figures hardly change over having just the tune only. They're all in the ballpark of around 700. Iain however publishes you'll see 650 from software only and 730 from software + catback. It's farcical and off putting. Iain should stick to tuning his Datsuns, A VAG specialist he clearly is not.
From my market understanding & as you say once you replace downpipes or decat that a fresh tune is a must, however a cutback wouldn't really require an updated tune as would only release 10-15bhp. I still think most of the uplifts Litch are quoting are coming form the revised tunes rather than their hardware as 50bhp from downpipes is impossible & 80bhp from a full exhaust is even more unbelievable so the bulk of the uplifts will be coming from the revised code.
As you already know, my M5 has no mechanical performance enhancements, all tune & that's at 748bhp & 700lbsft, however the car was close to 600bhp stock & although stage 1 achieved an additional 90bhp, it only realised about 55lbsft, however the stage 2 increased the outputs by only 50bhp but close to 100lbsft so the big gains overall are in their stage 2 tune, which is similar to what you'd also see from Evolve for BMW M's & MRC for RS's, as the cute stuff lies in the stage 2 code.
If i did go the 991 TS route for my next car, as attractive as it would be to return to DMS & get them to fettle it, Porsche's stance on such things is far more disciplined than Audi or BMW so i'll be passing that desire up.
