B8 RS4 and engine carbon issues

[doodlebug]

Aye, the new ZF 8 speed jobby has seen wide acclaim, no surprise it has found it's way into a wide range of cars.

No doubt lighter and less complex. Agreed, could be the way forward for the mass market. It will also help that the R&D feedback is coming from such a wide range of manufacturers.

[adsgreen]

if you look at the Porsche 911 pdk and non pdk models there's around 40kgs difference. And in a 911 that 40kgs is going to be right where you don't want it

[blueaudi]

if you look at the Porsche 911 pdk and non pdk models there's around 40kgs difference. And in a 911 that 40kgs is going to be right where you don't want it

Doesn't work like that in practice, little or no discernible difference on track or road. My only beef is that I miss the involvement of a manual change, but that's a personal thing.

[adsgreen]

I can tell the difference with 40kgs in the boot of the RS4. Sure you can adapt the suspension to suit but you can't get away from the physics.

Anyway - that 40kgs you are lugging about everywhere.

[blueaudi]

I can tell the difference with 40kgs in the boot of the RS4. Sure you can adapt the suspension to suit but you can't get away from the physics.

Anyway - that 40kgs you are lugging about everywhere.

I think I would also be able to tell the difference if I stuffed 40 kilo's in the boot of any car. I spent a day at the PEC back to back in PDK and manual, both had PDCC and I really could not tell them apart from a handling perspective, surprised and impressed in equal measure. Edited to say that they were 991S models, not driven a 997 PDK.

[sakimano]

PS. The term S-tronic can now refer to the dsg or tiptronic auto transmissions. The rs6 has s-tronic for example, even though is the 8 speed tip.

dsg/tiptronic/s-tronic are all different,
s-tronic is the only one with dual cluch, faster shifting (0.2s) and rev-matching on down shifts,
the s-tronic RS7 TT V8 got about 700Nm of torque so clearly the gearbox can cope with that, supped V8 RS4/RS5/R8 will have no more then 600Nm, so wouldn't worry

Try reading my post again

Audi now calls the dsg AND tc auto cars s-tronic. The big torque cars did not get the dual clutch dsg.

Adsgrren was talking about the dsg in the b8 rs4/RS5. He asked if b8 rs4/5 s-troni(dsg) can handle the torque of a good supercharger. I said it seems that Audi didn't think so since they opted to not use it on the big power/torque applications (rs6/7, s8), then mentioned the nomenclature change.

Then you came in late.

S-tronic is not dual clutch only. It is now used for the dsg (dual clutch) PLUS the torque converter 8 speed. S-tronic isn't a technology. Just a name for automatic now.

[adsgreen]

So kinda like the term 'Quattro' can mean perm 4wd like on the rs4 or haldex on others.

My concern with dsg boxes is that they have (I would have thought?) smaller clutch areas so limits lower than conventional gearboxes. However I know some tt-rs's are running high power/torque but a much lighter car.

[blueaudi]

Surely torque is the issue with DSG and S-Tronic, is that not why the big output diesel has the tiptronic box? What are Audi going to use in the RS6?

[adsgreen]

Surely torque is the issue with DSG and S-Tronic, is that not why the big output diesel has the tiptronic box? What are Audi going to use in the RS6?

conventional auto - ZF8 speed.

[blueaudi]

Surely torque is the issue with DSG and S-Tronic, is that not why the big output diesel has the tiptronic box? What are Audi going to use in the RS6?

conventional auto - ZF8 speed.

It's all getting rather confusing, but I take it that there are still load issues with DSG if they're resorting to a conventional auto? My limited understanding is that DSG and PDK are one and the same, so if Porsche offer PDK on the 911 Turbo, why no DSG on similarly powered Audi's?

[marzz]

is anybody actually using the water/meth setup on NA V8?
if so, what kit did you get?

[sakimano]

Surely torque is the issue with DSG and S-Tronic, is that not why the big output diesel has the tiptronic box? What are Audi going to use in the RS6?

conventional auto - ZF8 speed.

It's all getting rather confusing, but I take it that there are still load issues with DSG if they're resorting to a conventional auto? My limited understanding is that DSG and PDK are one and the same, so if Porsche offer PDK on the 911 Turbo, why no DSG on similarly powered Audi's?

We have seen loads of mechatronic failures with the b8 s4 stage two dsg guys. Not sure if the b8 s4 dsg is just not that good or if the heft and quattro and lots of early onset torque (the tvsr1320 supercharger is like instatorque) are the culprit because the gti guys are making more power and torque and the dsg is still fine. Those are turbocharged with a harder more sudden torque hit when boost kicks so you'd think the vw guys would be more at risk but they weigh 800 lbs less, and don't have quattro so they can easily overwhelm the tires giving the driveline a break... Whereas the b8 weighs 4050 lbs and is quattro.

[ArthurPE]

awd is not forgiving on a clutch, 2 wd will spin the wheels to disapate energy until the clutch grabs, awd does not

I think the weak link in the dsg are the dual concentric main shafts, the inner is smaller diameter and the outer is hollow (the inner fits within it)
this makes both inherently weaker than one larger solid shaft

aren't the clutches a wet pack in dsg? this may limit torque capacity also