Brake Thread - OEM Ceramics vs OEM Steel

5.0 V10 50v biturbo - 571 bhp
Post Reply
User avatar
IanH755
Top Gear
Posts: 2054
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:50 pm
Location: Stoke and Norfolk

Re: My 900+ spec

Post by IanH755 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:16 pm

Everyone's entitled to an opinion Bam, if that's what he feels then who am I to say that his personal experience of steels is "right" or "wrong".

I am interested in where he had the C7 AP Racing 410x36mm's made though as they don't fit the stock Brembo caliper so it needs new calipers, mounting brackets, bells etc and BG developments haven't made any for the C7 yet (I asked Alex@BG about 2 weeks ago) so if there's another company now doing them then thats great news.

PS

Image

Image

Image

:D
Last edited by IanH755 on Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
***OLD*** Daytona C5 RS6 Avant - MRC'd - 500HP & 820NM (PistonHeads Link).

***NEW*** Daytona C6 RS6 Avant - MRC'd - 925HP & 1150NM (PistonHeads Link)

User avatar
Ian_C
Cruising
Posts: 6683
Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 10:11 pm
Location: Bedford

Re: My 900+ spec

Post by Ian_C » Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:01 pm

v8 omfg wrote:Stock steel brakes are insufficient for general use...
From 2 minutes 24 seconds



https://youtu.be/kuTZSekmu3w?t=2m24s
B5 B6 B7 B9

User avatar
Surrey Sam
Cruising
Posts: 4195
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:34 pm
Location: Sussex

Re: My 900+ spec

Post by Surrey Sam » Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:28 pm

v8 omfg wrote: Therefore my ceramic hunt is the only way I see to go,
Then maybe I won't be constrained to using the vehicle within its <beep> braking capabilities.
Join the club.

The only setup I've ever had confidence in which can deliver the goods time after time without 'protecting' the brake pedal has been a ceramic setup. Sure they have small niggles but for me, the benefits of reliable performance on a fast car, far outweigh that of steels.

That's from 'real' world experience and not just internet speak.
Sepang Blue B8 RS4, MY14, All option packs, B&O, Adv Key, Adapt Cruise, Pan Roof, Akrapovic Titanium Exhaust, + more.
Previous - Sprint Blue B7 RS4 Avant, Ceramics, Sunroof, SS+, Buckets, FBSW, Bluetooth, 2010+ RNSe
Previous - Phantom Black B7 RS4 Avant, Black Optics, Titan pack, SS+, Buckets, FBSW

User avatar
Shinobi675
5th Gear
Posts: 1368
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:04 pm

Re: My 900+ spec

Post by Shinobi675 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:37 pm

Nope I can't cope any more!
v8 omfg wrote: Even with a stock power set up they are useless,
Wtf! Stock power... Ceramics give you more power!!!! Put your bloody foot on the floor you pansy! If the stock power doesn't kick in the abs, you're clearly not pushing the peddle hard enough!

The point just before the wheel locks is the PHYSICAL limit of grip! If the wheel is stationary while the car is still moving then you already have more pedal power than the grip allows!!!
v8 omfg wrote:Stock steel brakes are insufficient for general use...
What a load of tosh! Don't be so daft! You can not stop harder by changing brakes! You need a bigger footprint on the floor with your tyres, or you need a stickier floor!






And calm.... Woo Saa, Woo Saa... Nice video by the way!
996 C4S, B8 RS4, CBR600RR & a little ZXR400

User avatar
classba
Top Gear
Posts: 1814
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:11 am

Re: My 900+ spec

Post by classba » Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:42 pm

Surrey Sam wrote:
v8 omfg wrote: Therefore my ceramic hunt is the only way I see to go,
Then maybe I won't be constrained to using the vehicle within its <beep> braking capabilities.
Join the club.

The only setup I've ever had confidence in which can deliver the goods time after time without 'protecting' the brake pedal has been a ceramic setup. Sure they have small niggles but for me, the benefits of reliable performance on a fast car, far outweigh that of steels.

That's from 'real' world experience and not just internet speak.
Sam, I'm with you all the way... the problem here is that not many has had experienced the full on Ceramics for the C6 let alone owned them... say no more or else you too will get hammered here from the steel brigade LMFAO. :assflash:
Too much power is barely enough.

User avatar
Shinobi675
5th Gear
Posts: 1368
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:04 pm

Re: My 900+ spec

Post by Shinobi675 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:46 pm

My issue isn't with ceramics... It's with the notion that having ceramics make you stop sooner... They can't provide more grip. They have other advantages over steals, definitely. The only negative really is cost and fragility. They cost a lot, if they don't have any issues, they're worth the money.

Though I think I saw something on here about being able to recoat ceramic disks at a fraction of the cost! If that becomes a big thing, then that's the future!

But... The can't make you stop quicker...
996 C4S, B8 RS4, CBR600RR & a little ZXR400

User avatar
classba
Top Gear
Posts: 1814
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:11 am

Re: My 900+ spec

Post by classba » Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:52 pm

What a load of tosh! Don't be so daft! You can not stop harder by changing brakes! You need a bigger footprint on the floor with your tyres, or you need a stickier floor!
[/quote]

Are you serious?... for a given foot print the difference in stopping distance between steel and ceramic brakes is huge. Have you actually tested your statement and do you own ceramics or are you just off loading from what you have read from the net?. :)

I have owned both the steels and the ceramics for the C6 so at least I know what I'm talking about in the real world situations.
Too much power is barely enough.

User avatar
Surrey Sam
Cruising
Posts: 4195
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:34 pm
Location: Sussex

Re: My 900+ spec

Post by Surrey Sam » Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:54 pm

Shinobi675 wrote:Nope I can't cope any more!
v8 omfg wrote: Even with a stock power set up they are useless,
Wtf! Stock power... Ceramics give you more power!!!! Put your bloody foot on the floor you pansy! If the stock power doesn't kick in the abs, you're clearly not pushing the peddle hard enough!

The point just before the wheel locks is the PHYSICAL limit of grip! If the wheel is stationary while the car is still moving then you already have more pedal power than the grip allows!!!
v8 omfg wrote:Stock steel brakes are insufficient for general use...
What a load of tosh! Don't be so daft! You can not stop harder by changing brakes! You need a bigger footprint on the floor with your tyres, or you need a stickier floor!


And calm.... Woo Saa, Woo Saa... Nice video by the way!

Yes...with respect that's stating the bleeding obvious. How about being able to modulate the brake pedal at maximum braking efficiency? How about less un-sprung weight being able to maintain better a contact patch? These all effect performance.

Sure, steels stop really good from cold. They also stop really well a couple of times from 1.2 leptons, any more and then it's like looking into a crystal ball trying to ascertain what your stopping distance will be like. Ceramics just stop, then stop again and then stop some more! All in a reliable and consistent manor, unlike steels.

Try it before you knock it. I've had direct comparison having owned two examples of the same car, at the exact same time - 1 Ceramic equipped and the other Steel equipped. I even swapped the brakes over to eliminate chassis differences.

Like I said. REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE.


I'm done :sleeping_2:
Sepang Blue B8 RS4, MY14, All option packs, B&O, Adv Key, Adapt Cruise, Pan Roof, Akrapovic Titanium Exhaust, + more.
Previous - Sprint Blue B7 RS4 Avant, Ceramics, Sunroof, SS+, Buckets, FBSW, Bluetooth, 2010+ RNSe
Previous - Phantom Black B7 RS4 Avant, Black Optics, Titan pack, SS+, Buckets, FBSW

User avatar
Shinobi675
5th Gear
Posts: 1368
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:04 pm

Re: My 900+ spec

Post by Shinobi675 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:54 pm

classba wrote:What a load of tosh! Don't be so daft! You can not stop harder by changing brakes! You need a bigger footprint on the floor with your tyres, or you need a stickier floor!
Are you serious?... for a given foot print the difference in stopping distance between steel and ceramic brakes is huge. Have you actually tested your statement and do you own ceramics or are you just off loading from what you have read from the net?. :)

I have owned both the steels and the ceramics for the C6 so at least I know what I'm talking about in the real world situations.[/quote]

Excellent. Show me anything that backs up your ideas?

Evo took two F type R. One steal, one ceramic. No difference in stopping distance. Same time and time again. See above. What are you doing different to them with your brakes?

This is because of basic physics!
996 C4S, B8 RS4, CBR600RR & a little ZXR400

User avatar
Shinobi675
5th Gear
Posts: 1368
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:04 pm

Re: My 900+ spec

Post by Shinobi675 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:58 pm

Surrey Sam wrote:
Shinobi675 wrote:Nope I can't cope any more!
v8 omfg wrote: Even with a stock power set up they are useless,
Wtf! Stock power... Ceramics give you more power!!!! Put your bloody foot on the floor you pansy! If the stock power doesn't kick in the abs, you're clearly not pushing the peddle hard enough!

The point just before the wheel locks is the PHYSICAL limit of grip! If the wheel is stationary while the car is still moving then you already have more pedal power than the grip allows!!!
v8 omfg wrote:Stock steel brakes are insufficient for general use...
What a load of tosh! Don't be so daft! You can not stop harder by changing brakes! You need a bigger footprint on the floor with your tyres, or you need a stickier floor!


And calm.... Woo Saa, Woo Saa... Nice video by the way!

Yes...with respect that's stating the bleeding obvious. How about being able to modulate the brake pedal at maximum braking efficiency? How about less un-sprung weight being able to maintain better a contact patch? These all effect performance.

Sure, steels stop really good from cold. They also stop really well a couple of times from 1.2 leptons, any more and then it's like looking into a crystal ball trying to ascertain what your stopping distance will be like. Ceramics just stop, then stop again and then stop some more! All in a reliable and consistent manor, unlike steels.

Try it before you knock it. I've had direct comparison having owned two examples of the same car, at the exact same time - 1 Ceramic equipped and the other Steel equipped. I even swapped the brakes over to eliminate chassis differences.

Like I said. REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE.


I'm done :sleeping_2:
Not disagreeing with the extra benefits. Unsprung weight would be great for handling.

Modulating isn't at full brake power though, that's potentially an advantage when cornering and times when you need delicacy.

My point is always that steals do NOT have a longer stopping distance than ceramics. Until fade kicks in.
996 C4S, B8 RS4, CBR600RR & a little ZXR400

User avatar
IanH755
Top Gear
Posts: 2054
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:50 pm
Location: Stoke and Norfolk

Re: My 900+ spec

Post by IanH755 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:59 pm

classba wrote:you too will get hammered here from the steel brigade LMFAO. :assflash:
Image

:bigwave:
***OLD*** Daytona C5 RS6 Avant - MRC'd - 500HP & 820NM (PistonHeads Link).

***NEW*** Daytona C6 RS6 Avant - MRC'd - 925HP & 1150NM (PistonHeads Link)

User avatar
classba
Top Gear
Posts: 1814
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:11 am

Re: My 900+ spec

Post by classba » Tue Aug 02, 2016 11:09 pm

IanH755 wrote:
classba wrote:you too will get hammered here from the steel brigade LMFAO. :assflash:
Image

:bigwave:
LOl Ian... well done for finding that. I guess the chap in the front with the gold helmet is the leader ( YOU ). :biggrin3:
Too much power is barely enough.

User avatar
Surrey Sam
Cruising
Posts: 4195
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:34 pm
Location: Sussex

Re: My 900+ spec

Post by Surrey Sam » Tue Aug 02, 2016 11:14 pm

classba wrote: LOl Ian... well done for finding that. I guess the chap in the front with the gold helmet is the leader ( YOU ). :biggrin3:
They have to wear those helmets because of all the brake dust steels emit :lol:
Sepang Blue B8 RS4, MY14, All option packs, B&O, Adv Key, Adapt Cruise, Pan Roof, Akrapovic Titanium Exhaust, + more.
Previous - Sprint Blue B7 RS4 Avant, Ceramics, Sunroof, SS+, Buckets, FBSW, Bluetooth, 2010+ RNSe
Previous - Phantom Black B7 RS4 Avant, Black Optics, Titan pack, SS+, Buckets, FBSW

User avatar
classba
Top Gear
Posts: 1814
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:11 am

Re: My 900+ spec

Post by classba » Tue Aug 02, 2016 11:20 pm

Surrey Sam wrote:
classba wrote: LOl Ian... well done for finding that. I guess the chap in the front with the gold helmet is the leader ( YOU ). :biggrin3:
They have to wear those helmets because of all the brake dust steels emit :lol:
LMFAO.... haahahahahahahahahaha
Too much power is barely enough.

User avatar
Golfather
Cruising
Posts: 3033
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 10:27 pm
Location: Berks
Contact:

Re: My 900+ spec

Post by Golfather » Tue Aug 02, 2016 11:32 pm

Shinobi675 wrote: Show me anything...

Image

Post Reply

Return to “RS6 / RS6 Plus (C6 Typ 4F) 2008-2010”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 54 guests