Brake Thread - OEM Ceramics vs OEM Steel

[IanH755]

Probably a good call if you're not 100% sure.

[don0301]

It's a pretty easy swap for the Phaeton bits

I ordered the bits from my local VW garage, haggled a small discount, came to just under £100 for the parts.

There is a thread here somewhere with the parts numbers.

Noticeably better initial bite, and more resistance to fade.

I think a very good mod if you have the standard brakes.

Probably moddable for other setups, I couldn't say for sure though.

Yes, I wondered why they weren't a standard fit from Audi..they fit as if made for it, even the duct lining up.

[stevo55]

Thanks Don and Ian for the info

[TomRS]

I love how this things gets so heated!


It really annoys me when people comment about tracking the RS6, its my car i'll do what the hell i want with it, a good driver can attain a cars max potential by varying his driving style depending on the cars weight/drive train/power and handling characteristics..
I dont hold my hand up to be anything else other than "good" but i certainly can make the most of the C6, its a very rewarding car to take round track, when you really get to grips with it and corner according to its weight its good fun.

It is too heavy, the seats dont offer enough support "sport" mode on the DRC isnt stiff enough, it understeers badly once tire temps get high, tire temps get high quickly due to its weight..
But guess what?? i've got a beaming smile on my face and when im sat at the front after pushing half the field out the way driving EVO's etc its very satifying.

My session at croft warrnted about 12 laps before i had to retire with low fuel, in those 12 laps i used the brakes as hard as i could to the point that on every corner that required braking the ABS was kicking in or very close.
I worked the brakes that hard upon the wheel cooling down my wheel nuts were actually loose on the front... I HAD ZERO FADE OR PROBLEMS, i even had a few time attack chaps come over and ask me about the brakes commenting on how well they performed.
I have.

Phaeton duct mod
410mm AP conversion
AP racing RADI Cal R4 fluid
Braided brake lines
AP rear discs
DS2500 pads all round

Now as Ian mentioend before you do lose some pedal travel but the stopping performance is exactly the same, once cooled and after some road stops the pedal returns completely to normal.
I cant rate the AP kit higher nor can i give enough praise to BG for doing what they did, granted there was some slip ups along the way but for the overall cost of the setup and the return i get it was worth it and i'd go this route again.

Ceramics, i love them... i'd love to have them, are they worth the money? no in my opinion they are not unless buying new.... unless your pushing to extremes further than i was (and lets be honest most are never gonna come close in thier C6's as to what myself and Ian do on track)
So whats the point?

I cant afford ceramics, im not rich.. if i could afford it then i would... who wouldnt? but bottom line is i think i've found something that is as close i can get for a fraction of the cost.

[Shinobi675]

Yer but if you'd have had ceramics. You'd have been braking 500m later!

Top write up and good work!

[TomRS]

Yer but if you'd have had ceramics. You'd have been braking 500m later!

Top write up and good work!

I know i keep forgetting that if i had ceramics the world would spin slower every time i pressed the pedal! hahahah!

I dont like to debate too much over ceramics in general, as i do beleive that they are superior, but Audi's CCM compound has a long way to go and the cost is still the one major element that puts me off.
I mean anywhere from 8k-20k for various kits used and new is just crazy... you could buy a second hand RS4 for the money you'd spend on a top class set of ramics, it just blows my mind how anyone could open the wallet and replace those discs.
IF i had ramics and i ruined them i'd have no choice but to leave the car off the road, with the steels at least if i do ruin the disc i have to spend around £750 for a new set of front discs... thats nearly 3 sets of discs to one brand new ceramic... or 6 sets of discs to replace a pair of ramics
Now to go through 6 sets of discs in my life of owning the car is rare... so all you guys saying they last 80-100k so what? you buy a set second hand and great you dont ever have to change the discs... none of you are ever gonna own the car for 100k miles so all your doing really is helping out the 2nd/3rd owner
I'll could buy 3 full brand new 410mm conversion kits or 10 sets of discs for the price of the cheapest used ceramics...

even if i get 10k out of a set of discs and i own the car 3yrs thats 3 sets of discs... including buying the kit in the first places thats around £4750 still tons cheaper than wasting money on ceramics to drive round the streets in.



If you dont feel the stock steels work enough, then upgrade your fluid/pads and come back again... as 90% of the time thats the issue, old water logged brake fluid with a low boiling point.
Or road pads that cant cope with the added heat of heavy stops.
Even the oem Audi pads werent that bad on my stock 390mm steels it would take a while for them to overheat and brake down.

[Shinobi675]

Absolutely spot on. My issue with the argument is purely with the "ceramics are more powerful".

Money no option, I'd have ceramics. But it's not. A spare £5k would be spent on a full suspension upgrade, that would improve the car more than a ceramic upgrade. It's bang for your buck for me!

[rtd]

To add my two pence having had to remove my front ceramic discs due to delamination - going back to the steels is a eye opener even when only using car on road. My car isn't even mapped and the difference between steels and ceramics is literally night and day. But the cost is a biggie if I can't get mine refurbed - hopefully I can but if I can't - then a new set with the discount I'm able to acquire via a contact is still eye watering.

[bam_bam]

Did you retain the callipers or do a full swap? Also, was coding required?

[rtd]

Bam I had my old steel setup so I have taken off the ceramic discs and calipers and replaced with my steel discs and associated calipers - I did some digging into this whole coding thing and there is no need for it - I acquired said coding etc but didn't do it and not felt any difference

[Shinobi675]

To add my two pence having had to remove my front ceramic discs due to delamination - going back to the steels is a eye opener even when only using car on road. My car isn't even mapped and the difference between steels and ceramics is literally night and day. But the cost is a biggie if I can't get mine refurbed - hopefully I can but if I can't - then a new set with the discount I'm able to acquire via a contact is still eye watering.

Ah this is more like it! So what were the differences? I found the steals had too much of an off on feel. Difficult to use them to balance the car. So it was anchors on and all fine, but no delicacy!

[HYFR]

to add some more fuel to the fire ... I just got a quote for a set of front brake pads for the Ceramic brakes (Brembo 398mm) on my F-TYPE R

£1k !!!

[IanH755]

Just for pads???? No 60in TV, swimming pool or lap dance from Holly Willobooby included???? Holy poop!

[HYFR]

yep JUST pads !

[HYFR]

To add my two pence having had to remove my front ceramic discs due to delamination - going back to the steels is a eye opener even when only using car on road. My car isn't even mapped and the difference between steels and ceramics is literally night and day. But the cost is a biggie if I can't get mine refurbed - hopefully I can but if I can't - then a new set with the discount I'm able to acquire via a contact is still eye watering.

Ah this is more like it! So what were the differences? I found the steals had too much of an off on feel. Difficult to use them to balance the car. So it was anchors on and all fine, but no delicacy!

the on / off feel is the audi calibration and servo

the modulation available on my F-TYPE R ceramics is night and day vs. the R8 V10 Ceramics (on/off)