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Hi all,


I just thought that we should keep an FATS database for euro S4s so we can compare performance on things comparable. The reason for this is that the american S4 gearbox is totally different and the gear ratios are not the same as ours, so when we look at "their" FATS times, we can't really compare them with ours, as some baseline parameters are off for this comparison.

Ok, I'll start this, best FATS run done yesterday on my S4, it was 28 degrees C outside, there was only me in the car, lots of stuff in the trunk and in the backseat, half a tank of fuel, my FATS time was 4.57 seconds.

The mods are:

DarIntake kit with BMC dual cone filter setup
QST RS4 dual cat-back exhaust with no resonator (deleted by me)
Stock downpipes with gutted precats and 2 3" pipes in place of the stock main cats
Otherwise totally standard engine, 89k miles, 1998 S4 saloon.
Custom mapped ECU, not very elaborate though, as I never have enough time to get someone to drive my car so I can map it... and VAG-Com'd (same as lemmiwinks) to run 6 degrees on top of what I had programmed when I did it with the cats on.

Here is the block 003 log for the record, BTW, I'm pretty happy with the really high advance I'm running in the midrange, before I had my cats removed there was no way I could run so much advance. Fuel is Total 98 RON from Belgium.

Group A: '003
Engine speed Mass air flow Throttle angle Ign timing
TIME g/s 0-5deg=closed deg
STAMP /min g/s % ｰBTDC
12,68 3080 35,89 14,5 31,5
12,97 3120 33,42 12,9 24
13,29 3120 30,53 12,5 23,3
13,58 3120 28,06 11,8 43,5
13,88 3160 25,75 11,8 42,8
14,18 3160 32,14 14,5 41,3
14,48 3280 99,31 100 27
14,78 3360 129,11 100 24
15,09 3520 167,39 100 17,3
15,39 3680 194,25 100 18
15,69 3880 195,06 100 18
15,99 4040 206,42 100 18,8
16,3 4280 215,42 100 18,8
16,63 4440 234,06 100 16,5
16,94 4680 238,53 100 14,3
17,27 4840 240,08 100 15
17,6 5040 239,64 100 16,5
17,94 5240 244,58 100 15
18,29 5400 247,06 100 17,3
18,64 5640 249,86 100 17,3
19 5760 256,81 100 17,3
19,36 5960 251,22 100 17,3
19,73 6080 255,5 100 20,3
20,1 6280 254,25 100 21
20,48 6440 252,69 100 22,5
20,86 6520 256,92 100 21
21,23 6640 254,78 100 21
21,61 6840 258,33 100 24,8
21,99 6920 253,42 100 21,8


My request is for all those who have VAG-Com, please post here your FATS runs (i.e. 3rd gear WOT and start logging from 3000 RPM to redline and check the time from 4200 to 6500).

Here is a FATS calculator where you input the times from VAG-Com or ECU Explorer http://ctny.audiworld.com/mark/s4/ecux/ ... s_time.xls, it is basically very useful for interpolating the exact time at 4200 and 6500 RPM if your VAG-com's resolution is as low as everybody else's and doesn't "catch" those RPM points exactly.


Here is also a FATS to HP calculator, seems pretty close to my estimations (I used 3770lbs for my car in this run, it comes up with 354 crank HP, I did come up with 350 HP based on the MAF output. http://www.vastperformance.com/faq.html



Now get your Vag-Coms, find a straight and flat stretch of road and do this please, it's for the benefit of the whole community!!!

Cheers,

Mihnea

So are your downpipes now test-pipes? No cats whatsoever? What sort of difference do you see between stock/gutted precats/no cats?
Sorry to take the thread off in a completely different direction.

I need a VAG-com then I could join in.

Is it running the same map as when I drove and you tuned?? Just with 6 degs extra??

Neil,

Gutted precats+QST dual exhaust with no resonator vs all stock felt really good. 10-15HP increase at least.

My new downpipes (test pipes) have no cats whatsoever now

There is yet another difference, and I can really "feel" the difference in backpressure, because now I can run 255-260g/s of MAF at less than 1 bar, which was required before in order to get the airflow that high. Less backpressure and less boost means I can run more timing, and this is proved by the pretty high timing numbers I have logged. Before this, I had never seen an engine willing to take more than 10 degrees of timing on full boost at mid-revs without causing retarding. I am running 15-18 degrees on full boost and still no retarding happens....

Cheers,

Mihnea

NeilMc wrote:So are your downpipes now test-pipes? No cats whatsoever? What sort of difference do you see between stock/gutted precats/no cats?
Sorry to take the thread off in a completely different direction.

I need a VAG-com then I could join in.

Superb idea.....will post once my car is running properly

Cheers

Mik

S2tuner wrote:Hi all,


I just thought that we should keep an FATS database for euro S4s so we can compare performance on things comparable. The reason for this is that the american S4 gearbox is totally different and the gear ratios are not the same as ours, so when we look at "their" FATS times, we can't really compare them with ours, as some baseline parameters are off for this comparison.

Ok, I'll start this, best FATS run done yesterday on my S4, it was 28 degrees C outside, there was only me in the car, lots of stuff in the trunk and in the backseat, half a tank of fuel, my FATS time was 4.57 seconds.

Bastid!

Must get cats done..... (and then another remap). Anybody need a 'used' kidney?

OK will do. Do I just need to log group 3 and do the run or is there anything else I need to prepare?

will get mine setup too over the weekend

Great Dippy

Yes, you only have to go WOT in 3rd from 3k to 7k and then use the excel file above to interpolate the right time at 4200 RPM and 6500, and this will calculate your FATS time.

As a reference, we have done this on Dougal's car (my business partner), it's an S2 that dynoed repeatedly 440 HP and we got 3.78 with loads of crap in the car and the 2 of us, which, according to the FATS to HP calculator, corresponds to 440 crank HP sharp

Pretty good method IMHO, the only other thing is to take notice of ambient temp conditions and to try to do it with a non-heatsoaked intake...


Cheers,

Mihnea, now in Scotland

Hi Mihnea now in Scotland - you have PM

May have to delay this test a few weeks now that my clutch is slipping...

Well I did the test, started getting worried about the results and then realised that the FATS test is 3rd gear. I was confused with the test on the RS4 forum which was in 4th gear! I'll do it again in 3rd, which will be much easier fortunately.

Anyway, here are my results for 4th gear. It's 12.92 seconds.
Interestingly that EXACTLY the same time as 3K to 6K as in the RS4 test!

Ambient approx 20 degrees
Slightly uphill
Constant curve in road (yes it was a bit scary)
TIME REVS MAF THROTTLE IGNITION
1052.3 4200 215.08 100 5.3
1052.61 4280 220 100 6
1052.93 4400 223.31 100 6.8
1053.24 4440 226.97 100 5.3
1053.56 4520 225.5 100 7.5
1053.87 4600 227.14 100 6.8
1054.2 4720 227.83 100 6.8
1054.52 4760 228.83 100 6.8
1054.86 4800 230.5 100 5.3
1055.18 4920 231.19 100 8.3
1055.51 5000 231.89 100 6.8
1055.85 5080 236.03 100 5.3
1056.2 5120 235.5 100 8.3
1056.52 5200 235.86 100 9
1056.87 5280 238.31 100 9.8
1057.21 5320 236.56 100 8.3
1057.56 5400 239.69 100 9.8
1057.9 5440 242.14 100 9
1058.25 5520 245.94 100 9
1058.6 5560 244.47 100 9
1058.96 5640 244 100 9.8
1059.31 5680 244.47 100 10.5
1059.67 5760 243.06 100 10.5
1060.03 5800 244.47 100 11.3
1060.39 5840 243.75 100 12
1060.75 5920 243.5 100 12
1061.12 5960 242.56 100 12.8
1061.48 6000 245 100 14.3
1061.85 6080 246.44 100 14.3
1062.22 6120 246.92 100 14.3
1062.59 6160 247.92 100 15
1062.96 6200 246.44 100 15
1063.33 6240 248.42 100 12
1063.71 6320 246.92 100 16.5
1064.09 6320 249.42 100 16.5
1064.46 6400 247.92 100 17.3
1064.84 6440 248.89 100 15
1065.22 6480 248.89 100 18.8

When I've redone it in 3rd, I hope to see a higher MAF because I have seen 280 before.

What sort of road speeds do you hit doing this? I need to find a suitable bit of private road to do a test

6500 in 4th is about 125 indicated

Here's my best result. I used the same dual carriageway, so still not ideal, but I got just under 6 seconds. The ambient temperature was down to about 15 degrees and there was slight rain.

459.94 4200 221.64 100 7.5
460.25 4360 225.36 100 6.8
460.57 4520 226.14 100 7.5
460.88 4680 231.89 100 8.3
461.21 4800 236.03 100 9
461.54 4920 236.03 100 9.8
461.87 5080 240.92 100 9.8
462.21 5240 241.11 100 10.5
462.56 5360 241.11 100 12
462.91 5520 244.11 100 11.3
463.26 5640 246.44 100 12
463.62 5760 247.44 100 12.8
463.98 5880 245.94 100 13.5
464.35 6000 247.42 100 15
464.72 6120 247.53 100 14.3
465.09 6240 250.92 100 16.5
465.47 6400 250.92 100 17.3
465.84 6480 252.44 100 18.8
466.22 6600 254.44 100 18.8

Now I can't really compare to Minhea's car because his mods are much more drastic, however I feel that 6 seconds is a bit slow.

Also I did not get as much MAF as I recorded 2 years ago (280g/s). In fact my figures are comparable to Minhea's whose exhaust should be less restrictive than mine (full Miltek system), plus he has air intake mods. Which now leaves me rather confused about what I should be getting at all!