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I've been thinking long and hard about this and....I won't be buying the new RS4.

Reasons:

1) Because it has NO TURBOS. I am sick of this spat been Audi and BMW. "We can also make noisey poweful non-turbo engines" "Look here's one we did earlier". Stuff the customer and Audi tradition.

2) It's made for the US market, so it has a big V8. A 3.2 Turbo V6 would have been brilliant, but no....the Americans wouldn't like that. Stuff the European enthusiasts.

3) There will be a saloon. It's now a car for the masses. The sort of car you will see alongside M3's in the executive car park. Horror of horror's its the sort of car my neighbour will buy now. The same neighbour who has always looked down on my Avant - "Station wagon" he calls it. Yeah right. I like the fact that non-enthusiasts don't recognise it for what it is.

4) It is doubtful that it will have limited numbers. I like being special.

5) Unless the mock ups are wrong, it looks dumbed down, eco-friendly and dare I say it...........made for BMW drivers who don't know why they buy, but just that it must be the right theing to do.

Yes, it will have better brakes, but I can buy Movit for my existing car. It will have better suspension, but the quattro gmbh option for my existing car is perfect. It may have more rear room, but who wants passengers anyway.

So, I shall be limiting my mileage in my car and keeping it until Audi produce a turbo again.

I wonder how many others feel the same.

I agree with the most part, but having seen the CSL in action I wonder what could be possible with a NA car is done correctly. I will not be plunging into the new RS4 the way I did with this one, and will be quite content to sit on the fence and see if the new one will fit the bill. Otherwise, I will probably keep my current RS, and buy a second track car... Currently looking at a Porsche or an Exige.

CSL has no torque until you rev it. Noisey when you do. Ask Tim. It's a bit like the Honda S2000.

After speaking with the Movit guys in the last couple of days and judging by the previous attempts at brakes by Audi in the RS4 and RS6....I'll be amazed if Audi manage to produce brakes capable of stopping the new RS4 consistantly well on a track.

They will always have the cost vs performance figures to take into account, and will therefore probably provide the minimum they can get away with.

No new RS4 for me either.

The csl may need reving but when you go play on the track that's what you do.
I too was very impressed with the csl.
I didn't get a go in it but others comments were that it is a very raw experience,
so probably not a good choice if its your only car.
It is however the first Beemer I'd really consider owning, if it wasn't for the little matter of expected engine life

Around Spa Tim's csl could do everything our RS4's could, with the exception of having enough grunt to overtake us down the straights.

I have the same plan as Phil.
Get my arse in gear and get a different car properly sorted for the track. Having put my 993 round the track, and now the RS4, I'm going for power to weight in a light car, so an Exige is top of my list, with a vx220 as a possible alternative. In the short term I am shopping for some sticky rubber for the Caterham though

JohnW wrote:Around Spa Tim's csl could do everything our RS4's could, with the exception of having enough grunt to overtake us down the straights.

When I said a few weeks back that the RS4 was quicker round Spa than a CSL, everyone laughed.

BUT, if the CSL had turbos, you wouldn't see it for dust.

TURBOS RULE

Oh, and remember, if the CSL didnt have a Carbon fibre roof and light-weight everything else, it wouldn't feature at all. BMW got a wake up call and started removing weight to get performance.



P.S. Problem with most other track day cars is you are going to get upset when an estate comes blasting past. I love the RS4 on the track.

RS4ever wrote:

JohnW wrote:Around Spa Tim's csl could do everything our RS4's could, with the exception of having enough grunt to overtake us down the straights.

When I said a few weeks back that the RS4 was quicker round Spa than a CSL, everyone laughed.

Well, to put the record straight Tim toasted all of us (possible exception being Gav), but I think that had a lot to do with him being a better driver
and being on sticky rubber.

RS4ever wrote:BUT, if the CSL had turbos, you wouldn't see it for dust.

TURBOS RULE

Oh, and remember, if the CSL didnt have a Carbon fibre roof and light-weight everything else, it wouldn't feature at all. BMW got a wake up call and started removing weight to get performance.

If's and buts.
IF the RS had lightweight panels, IF I was a better driver, IF I had sticky rubber, then maybe it would have been a diffeent story, BUT I didn't.

Bottom line is the csl is every bit as good a car on the track.
As a standard car I would say it is better.
Once you start putting gmbh suspension, movits, etc, on the RS4 you move the goalposts.

As for removing weight due to a wake-up call, I personally think they did the right thing. I'd much rather have a 1 ton car than a 2 ton car with the same power/weight ratio.

RS4ever wrote:P.S. Problem with most other track day cars is you are going to get upset when an estate comes blasting past. I love the RS4 on the track.

Nope, I don't get upset as I am not trying to prove anything.
I go to the track to have fun. If a £5k golf comes past my RS4 so what ?
He might have invested his money in driver training...
I tend to drive at 9 tenths and just enjoy myself. You get no prizes for being the fastest, or going home in bits.

I enjoyed throwing the RS4 around on the track, but I think I would have enjoyed it just as much if I'd been in the 993 or the Caterham.

I should add that up until now I have always used standard road tyres. Reason ?
I'd rather slide the car around at its limit of adhesion rather than gain an extra 10mph corner speed, then find it all goes wrong and have to dig the thing out of the barriers.
If I had a dedicated track car it might be a different story. A GT3 RS on cups would be a nice toy

DaveP wrote:After speaking with the Movit guys in the last couple of days and judging by the previous attempts at brakes by Audi in the RS4 and RS6....I'll be amazed if Audi manage to produce brakes capable of stopping the new RS4 consistantly well on a track.

They will always have the cost vs performance figures to take into account, and will therefore probably provide the minimum they can get away with.

To be fair the current RS4 was never intended to be tracked,nor will the next gen effort.

All of a sudden people are doubting the replacement RS4 before we have even seen it,never mind driven the fecker.

I agree that the lack of turbos is a disapointment but lets give the car a chance,if they improve the power to weight ratio,sort out the handling and improve the brakes the car might well be all we hope for.

And lets face it,the current number is starting to show its age....the interior???

Cheers fc

I agree with "RS4ever" no TURBOS, I will not buy the new RS4!!!

My RS4 has only 25.670km, atention is not miles, IS VERY VERY NEW!!!

Audi will be to make cars only for the USA MARKET!!!

cheers

FrankC wrote:To be fair the current RS4 was never intended to be tracked,nor will the next gen effort.
...
And lets face it,the current number is starting to show its age....the interior???

I agree....it was never designed to be tracked...and the next one won't either, what I was meaning is that people looking at the new RS4 and thinking they won't need to modify in order for it to be a 'track tool' will be dissapointed I think.

As for the interior...I love the B5 interior, much better than the B6 interior in my opinion.

Having owned an RS4 and now owning an M3 CSL the cars are very different. I loved my RS4 for being so versatile and fast but did miss the steering feel. It was tuned to 458bhp and was the ultimate estate car but a bit heavy for serious track work. The CSL however is such a focussed car with a fantastic NA engine, superb handling and with the standard Cup tyres a match far any GT3 on the track. The only mod really needed is to upgrade the brakes as they are borderline if you want to do some serious track work.

I agree with FrankC, let´s wait and see it in flesh and also the first driving impressions, and off course they will put it against the B5 RS4. And since they are not any official releases about it, let´s wait to confirm they aren´t turbos and they build it mainly for the american market.

DaveP, could you tell me (if you don´t mind, please) what are the points that any Standard RS4 need to change/modify in order to go on track 4 or 5 times per year ? Thanks

Even if it will be an NA V8 (no turbos ), let´s wait to see the performance, because we have good examples like the M3 and M3 CSL as very good NA machines, right ? don´t you agree ?

Regards,

There's nothing to stop you doing 4-5 trackdays a year with a completely standard car....it all depends on what you want to do and how far you want to push it....

That said...better suspension and brakes are a great way to improve the car in my opinion. It would be very interesting indeed to see what sort of Nordschleife lap time an RS4 with uprated brakes/suspension could manage with a professional driver at the helm.

....and tyres of course...but that's the same with any car.

Frank has hit the nail on the head here.
If those of us who were involved right at the beginning of RS4.org days care to cast our minds back, many had already written the B5 RS4 off to such a degree before we even took delivery that it had a serious uphill climb to find a place in the Audi history book (and our hearts).

Reading these posts now and it seems bizarre that many people are again so quick to condenm something that, as yet, we really have next to nothing to base our opinions on, particularly when so many wrote the B5 RS4 off when it first came out.

IMO no road car is designed for the track since by definition road cars are a compromise to suit a massive variety of situations and variables. A track car is designed and built with a focus for track that cannot be applied to a standard production car.
I also agree with Dave regarding times around the ring which are more reflective of modern fast driving situations rather than the confines of a relatively short track.
After many years of target shooting and mountain biking, we used to say that the limitations of the individual were almost always far greater than the limitations of the tool/machine they used. IE if you want to go round a track faster, don't bother getting your car sorted until you are maximising your own capabilities! Otherwise just go out to have some fun, (and don't try so hard that you ship your car home in pieces!)

Here here!

What ever happens, I am sure it will be great. Audi would not risk messing it up.