Pinking....

[audi_do_dat_den]

Hello folks....

Pinking.... why would an engine with vastly complex electronic control systems pink/detonate/knock??

Its there from 1500 rpm through to 2000, 2200 rpm in low speeds, and under load its there with any increase of the throttle briefly.

It never runs on paraffin and the bare minimum is tesco momentum, with vpower being the 1st choice.

I had a 3.2 TT before and that did exactly the same..... which i never solved and whenever i asked the question on any forums, the first response was "whats pinking".

The 4.2FSI is a very modern engine, its hardly a pushrod cortina engine that needs the distributor swinging a degree to the left.

Does anyone else have this annoying experience?

[andyg72]

I had plenty of pinking fords but as you say it's unheard of theses days ... Needs plugging in to see if any issues have been logged

[audi_do_dat_den]

Plugged in just 3 days ago, even bought a genuine cable and VCDS from the rosstech agent..... showed nothing.
Not had any EML on the dash or any other logged events.... but its there, and it most certainly is the dreaded pinking.
I know that if not addressed, ill lose a piston or mash up a bottom end shell eventually.

One thing i have deduced is that it is due to a lean mixture when hot.... when running from cold, its perfect... with a slightly richer mixture.
Its really annoying me because these engines should be driven hard and thats something i do not want to do when its pinking......

If i knew how to run live logs, id post up the bumph here for a boffin to pick through.

Its an odd one....

[Surrey Sam]

Hate the expression pinking, I prefer it as pinging. Using VCDS have a look at module 1 Engine, then 8 Measuring Blocks, you can then look for the fuel trims to see how much it is retarding the timing. If that's heavy, then look at Carbon cleaning, Spark Plug renewal or even MAF replacement.

[PetrolDave]

Hate the expression pinking, I prefer it as pinging. Using VCDS have a look at module 1 Engine, then 8 Measuring Blocks, you can then look for the fuel trims to see how much it is retarding the timing. If that's heavy, then look at Carbon cleaning, Spark Plug renewal or even MAF replacement.

In the old days, when all engines needed de-coking every few thousand miles, pinking was often caused by pre-ignition from hot spots on carbon build up in the cylinders.

[ravashanks]

I have this on my RS4 as well. Extremely extremely annoying and frustrating. Just as the OP mentioned in the first post, it's there at various rpms and very pronounced under full load or going uphill. Heat definitely contributes, and it doesn't help that it always friggin hot here in sunny Singapore.

Thought is was the tune, so put it back to a stock map and it's still pinging. Ran the logs and engine is retarding timing by as much as -12.5 deg at certain points. Particularly bad in a couple of cylinders in each bank but most cylinders seem to be retarding timing at various points. It was even pinging (though less, but not much less) when some race fuel was mixed into a tank of regular petrol to see if the RON ratings made any difference.

Any ideas? Car's going in for a check up next week. Am hoping it's carbon buildup related or MAF/spark plugs cos i really want to be able to floor the throttle without fear of blowing something up everytime.

[R1RS4]

How's this going?

Any other noticeable driving issues ? Is it hesitant on acceleration or deacceleration?

[ravashanks]

Didn't have time to get work done on the car till last week. Had the engine checked for carbon build-up and the verdict was that while there was some carbon build-up, it was not significant and certainly not enough to lead to pinging. Anyway, got that cleaned up since everything was already out.

Car pulls much nicer and noticeably punchier, BUT, the pinging is STILL there. No hesitation on acceleration. Pull is still pretty brutal all the way to redline, but can definitely hear the engine pinging, especially pottering around town and lowish speeds.

Any ideas, anyone?

[Surrey Sam]

-12.5 degrees retardation is quite a bit, what's it doing now after the carbon clean?

[JCviggen]

No easy way to troubleshoot this online.

If it's pinging on good quality fuel then either you have a lean mixture somewhere or very wrong spark plugs.

If you could log per-cylinder retardation then that might point to which cyls are knocking and if it's happening across both banks or just one. Pulling the spark plugs and checking how they look compared to each other would be the best forensic evidence about the fuel mix and pre-ignition severity on affected cylinders.

Also would be good to log injector and high pressure fuel pump duty cycle. They may be trying their hardest to get enough fuel in but if your fuel pressure is low (fuel filter with the low pressure regulator or the high pressure fuel pump(s) could be bad)

If all those are good they might still be a faulty sensor induced fuel trim issue.

[audi_do_dat_den]

Which blocks should be logged, or rather what numbers should be entered in the group boxes?
Im not sure how many logs can be taken simultaneously.... and should logs be taken in turbo mode in 3rd, from 2000 to redline and back to 2000?
Id love to nail this down once and for all. Its seriously annoying and very troubling!

Im still having precisely identical symptoms to Ravashanks, in fact, i have also since had all my vacuum leaks repaired, a full carbon clean and a stage 1 map done.... pinging is still there and very prominent.
Sometimes its a gentle tinkling sound while around 2-3000rpm, and then if i accelerate through it, you actually hear a large crack sound as the timing is adjusted hard, then its ok....

Ive noticed that its perfect during warm-up, and before the engine coolant is at operating temp. This kind of tells me that its a weak fuel mixture issue when hot.
Either low fuel delivery, evaporation in the inlets, or a possible CAT problem when fully heated - feeding duff info to the ECU....

[Chargedrs4]

log 20 for timing <beep>
log 31 for fuel afr
log 3 for timing and load
do a full load run in 3 gear from 1500 rpm till redline
and post it on here
will tell you right away whats wrong

stock ecm file are pretty aggressive and they do <beep> lots off timing but 12.5 is a b it to much

[audi_do_dat_den]

log 20 for timing <beep>
log 31 for fuel afr
log 3 for timing and load
do a full load run in 3 gear from 1500 rpm till redline
and post it on here
will tell you right away whats wrong

stock ecm file are pretty aggressive and they do <beep> lots off timing but 12.5 is a b it to much

Thanks a million for the block values mate!
Thats fantastic, i will get a set of logs done asap. Id be eternally grateful for some experienced eyes to decipher the info.

Cheers

[audi_do_dat_den]

Well.... managed to log the data... christ its hard to find a straight enough and long enough road to pull a 3rd gear redline in!

Big question - how do i post up the excel data or downloadable PDF files?

Ive sorted through the CSV file and printed it to PDF also.... but how to get them on here....

[JCviggen]

When you're making a post, at the bottom next to "options" there is an "upload attachments" tab

The CSV would be fine.