RS246.com Forum :: The World's #1 Audi R, S and RS Enthusiast Community

Took the car today to a MAHA LPS 3000 Dyno to see the output after finally soritng out tyhe clutch issue.

Some say ignorance is a bliss....you will see why.

The car has the following mods/works recently done:
1. Revolution Pipercross intake
2. Cold Air Feed
3. Gutted pre-cats
4. Forge Oil Cooler
5. JHM spacers
6. Manifold separators removed
7. Carbon cleaned about 2k kms ago
8. New spark plugs
9. New Oil and gas filters
10. New diff oil
11. LOBA Sachs Stage 2 clutch kit

The gutted pre-cats were done about 400kms ago.

Well it did 363hp and 359Nm/6365rpm

Attahced you can see the graph (apologies for the terrible quality as their printer had run out of ink).

In addition you can see the log with VCDS.

Obvious remarks are very low timing (BTDC) of max 28 and really low RPM/Sec. Despite not pulling too mich timing on high IAT of ca 55-58 degrees Celcius. The Mass Air flow look ok i gues at ca 332gr/sec.

So the question is why so low timing and so low torque? What was holding the car back?

To be quite honest with the mods in place I expected soemthing in the range of 380-390hp and a far better torque.
The guy at the dyno suggested that MAHA dyno's are quite strict on the 4WD Audis due to Torsen and I should adjust upwards the output by some 10%, ie 363x1.10= 393.

I have no idea whether this is true or just something to make me feel better...

Any ideas please as to what might be the cause of this restriction? You can obviously feel that the car is not puling as hard as it could....

Has the car been re-mapped and if so, by whom?

Hi Sam,

No the car has not been remapped.

Ok, so have you utilised spacers for the lambda sensors?

Surrey Sam wrote:Ok, so have you utilised spacers for the lambda sensors?

No. I asked them this morning whether they did use spacers and he said no. And despite not using spacers, no CEL light yet.

How this affects the torque?

Your lambda and timing readings are retarding, more so at high rpm. I would suggest that is good point to investigate your missing power, no CEL doesn't mean the car is healthy - it just means that the cars ECU can adjust parameters to meet manufacturer tolerance. Once it falls outside of the set tolerance it will throw the CEL.

Surrey Sam wrote:Your lambda and timing readings are retarding, more so at high rpm. I would suggest that is good point to investigate your missing power, no CEL doesn't mean the car is healthy - it just means that the cars ECU can adjust parameters to meet manufacturer tolerance. Once it falls outside of the set tolerance it will throw the CEL.

Any idea towards a specific direction?

nikkak77 wrote:

Surrey Sam wrote:Your lambda and timing readings are retarding, more so at high rpm. I would suggest that is good point to investigate your missing power, no CEL doesn't mean the car is healthy - it just means that the cars ECU can adjust parameters to meet manufacturer tolerance. Once it falls outside of the set tolerance it will throw the CEL.

Any idea towards a specific direction?

Re-fit the original cat with pre-cat and try again.

If you gutted the original pipes then look into either getting some lambda spacers which are popular in the USA, whereas over here in the UK, most who removed their precats have used a reputable company like MRC to remap the car to resolve this.

Surrey Sam wrote:

nikkak77 wrote:

Surrey Sam wrote:Your lambda and timing readings are retarding, more so at high rpm. I would suggest that is good point to investigate your missing power, no CEL doesn't mean the car is healthy - it just means that the cars ECU can adjust parameters to meet manufacturer tolerance. Once it falls outside of the set tolerance it will throw the CEL.

Any idea towards a specific direction?

Re-fit the original cat with pre-cat and try again.

If you gutted the original pipes then look into either getting some lambda spacers which are popular in the USA, whereas over here in the UK, most who removed their precats have used a reputable company like MRC to remap the car to resolve this.

Don't have access to MRC unfortunately.

I will be getting the spacers. You think the lack of those has to do with the car not pulling at high loads?

That would be my first port of call, second would be to check/test all the vacuum system making sure all the manifold flaps are working as they should.

Surrey Sam wrote:That would be my first port of call, second would be to check/test all the vacuum system making sure all the manifold flaps are working as they should.

Did test with VCDS the vacuum of the intake manifold and the exhaust, etc. and found no apparent issues as the arms of the intake moved fine, the exhaust sound ok and i have no air box to worry about.

However i just ordered a hand pump with vacuum gauge to check each vacuum system.

Surrey Sam wrote:Your lambda and timing readings are retarding, more so at high rpm... no CEL doesn't mean the car is healthy - it just means that the cars ECU can adjust parameters to meet manufacturer tolerance. Once it falls outside of the set tolerance it will throw the CEL.

+1 - exactly what is happening. The ECU attempting to do what it can to keep the car within tolerance. The MRC map rectifies his but I understand you have no access to them...

I would fit the spacers to the lambda and see how this affects the performance/adjusts the issue of retarded timing. With gutted pre-cats, as Sam mentions the clear cut answer is that stage 2 map, otherwise it's compensating with spacers on a trial and error basis.

nikkak77 wrote:Did test with VCDS the vacuum of the intake manifold and the exhaust, etc. and found no apparent issues as the arms of the intake moved fine, the exhaust sound ok and i have no air box to worry about.

Then you can be pretty confident it's not vacuum....

Good luck...

Thanks guys.

As regards spacers any particular brand out there? I have searched for Vast but they are out of business and i can find a brand called 42. Would that work?

nikkak77 wrote:Thanks guys.

As regards spacers any particular brand out there? I have searched for Vast but they are out of business and i can find a brand called 42. Would that work?

What about JHM: http://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalog/o ... p-132.html

I know this is a B5 spacer but a quick call/email to JHM should help you in the right direction....

Possible help: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthrea ... EL-amp-FAQ

You could try eBay for M18 o2 spacer?

Never done the precat modification myself so can't really help further. If I did go that route then I'd want a remap that catered for the extra flow rather than fit spacers to try and trick the system.