RS4 B7 Stated Power claim of 420ps

[ArthurPE]

I want to see a pic of sims car (aka the 'slug')
wipe off the leaking DRC fluid first
and move the camera to the side while taking the pic so that the car at least looks fast

from 1/4 mile times and trap speeds, unrestricted top speed runs and the 3-8k rpm results, I know the car is making > than rated power...420+ HP...
in several American road tests it was within a few tenths on the new M3 to 120 and the 1/4 (~equal some times), the cars have the same rated power and the M3 weighs 350 lbs less in US trim...
perhaps it is a conspiracy, ALL cars are over rated

[P_G]

With respect, they became worried because they had an expensive (some on forums have mentioned that the steep hike in warranty costs could be because of this - I am not convinced either way) and embarrasing issue on their hands, and reading posts is almost after the event. It ranks as one of the major setbacks for Audi - name me one or two bigger ones? That is not sensationilising it, merely not in denial of the depth of it.

As you mentioned, some problems are still recurring. Can you put your hand on heart and say that once all the faulty ones have been fixed once, the problem will not occur again.

Do you know they (Audi) became 'worried' or perhaps it was 'we have a fault; we better design and manufacture a fix for it'? And as for set back, it can't be that much of a set back since they are one of the few car manufacturers who grew during the recession and have greater market share. And yet those who sell their RS4's keep finding buyers including you, it's not like a Lancia rust situation is it?

As for the depth of it, worst case it is 10,000 B7 RS4's and however many C5 RS6's were built. Compared to how many cars that Audi build in that same time frame?

I don't recall mentioning some problems are recurring and if they are, there is a decent probabilty that they may fail as often as other parts so do they then all become issues? How many cars and manufacturers do you know that are faultless in their lifespan?

[Sims]

Sims, so I have this clear... you post on a forum, decide to leave your pc, lock the house up, drive to a suitable road, find clear traffic 5 times, do 5 timed runs to 8000 revs in your car, complete a return drive home, get back in and post the results all within 23 minutes?

In the words of Peter Jones..... Can I just stop you there, I've heard enough....I'm out!

I'll leave you to enjoy an RS4 hitting 100 in under 11 seconds but fully appreciate they have probably tried several cars and only picked the 'best' one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEsSwxw1DWU

lol, I asked the same question

Mr Engineer Sir

You asked a different question, not the same.

let me get this right:
he suggested it at 12:56
you posted at 1:14
and had results by 1:57
???


And I provided an accurate answer, that you choose not to believe it reflects on you. I choose to ignore your prejudice from now on.

[mark758]

Sims, so I have this clear... you post on a forum, decide to leave your pc, lock the house up, drive to a suitable road, find clear traffic 5 times, do 5 timed runs to 8000 revs in your car, complete a return drive home, get back in and post the results all within 23 minutes?

43 minutes, but don't let facts get in your way.

That extra 20 minutes definitely has me convinced now...
...Let's just keep ignoring facts getting in our way on video footage of cars performing as expected...it's a good way forward...

[Sims]

Sims, so I have this clear... you post on a forum, decide to leave your pc, lock the house up, drive to a suitable road, find clear traffic 5 times, do 5 timed runs to 8000 revs in your car, complete a return drive home, get back in and post the results all within 23 minutes?

43 minutes, but don't let facts get in your way.

That extra 20 minutes definitely has me convinced now...
Let's just keep ignoring video footage of cars performing as expected...it's a good way forward...

I am glad you are convinced, not that even all of the 20 minutes would be necessary for me to repeat the test if I choose to do so.

No-one is ignoring the pace at which these cars move, but that is actually irrelevant to the question posed. No-one should also ignore the countless mentions of the power output problems

[HYFR]

No-one should also ignore the countless mentions of the power output problems

proved by how?!?! it comes back round to that fact that this assumption is based purely on Dyno figures, unless someone can advise otherwise.

Sims - Im not having a pop at you, and I hope this thread doesnt turn out that way. I think you are fair to raise the question, but it does need to be acknowledged that the only reason this question even exists is because of a number of dyno readouts

AurtherPE has in many of his posts in this and previous thread provided much scientific arguements which IMO hold far more weight than a dyno I KNOW cannot accruately gauage power, as it rated my RS 6 as 420 when I had it health checked, pressure tested and boost read by MRC only the week after (oh and on some of the runs it only hit 3**)

[ArthurPE]

Sims, so I have this clear... you post on a forum, decide to leave your pc, lock the house up, drive to a suitable road, find clear traffic 5 times, do 5 timed runs to 8000 revs in your car, complete a return drive home, get back in and post the results all within 23 minutes?

In the words of Peter Jones..... Can I just stop you there, I've heard enough....I'm out!

I'll leave you to enjoy an RS4 hitting 100 in under 11 seconds but fully appreciate they have probably tried several cars and only picked the 'best' one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEsSwxw1DWU

lol, I asked the same question

Mr Engineer Sir

You asked a different question, not the same.

let me get this right:
he suggested it at 12:56
you posted at 1:14
and had results by 1:57
???


And I provided an accurate answer, that you choose not to believe it reflects on you. I choose to ignore your prejudice from now on.

43 minutes is just as unbelievable...
prepare to leave house
gather timer and timing equipment
get in car
get to highway
make runs at rush hour
return
log on and make post

errr, right...

the fact that you choose to ignore me is not surprising, you do the same with facts

[mark758]

No-one is ignoring the pace at which these cars move, but that is actually irrelevant to the question posed. No-one should also ignore the countless mentions of the power output problems

So you are now suggesting that you can divorce published pace from published power ? Acknowledge one and doubt the other?

As already stated you cannot accurately measure engine power on a rolling road only on a bench dynometer free of ancillaries.

[Sims]

Do you know they (Audi) became 'worried' or perhaps it was 'we have a fault; we better design and manufacture a fix for it'?

It was a significant - do you think it never made it to the Board more than once. But of course they will and can fix it.

And as for set back, it can't be that much of a set back since they are one of the few car manufacturers who grew during the recession and have greater market share. And yet those who sell their RS4's keep finding buyers including you, it's not like a Lancia rust situation is it?

I was not referring to a financial setback, but in any event Audi is a volume producer, with the number of RS's sold being an insignificant number. But as I have said many times already, the RS package is great. And no it is no Lancia, or an Alfa, or a Maserati.

As for the depth of it, worst case it is 10,000 B7 RS4's and however many C5 RS6's were built. Compared to how many cars that Audi build in that same time frame?

The percentage of RS cars being affected by DRC is mega compared to the non RS Audi suspension issues.

I don't recall mentioning some problems are recurring and if they are, there is a decent probabilty that they may fail as often as other parts so do they then all become issues? How many cars and manufacturers do you know that are faultless in their lifespan?

You did, because it is still happening. The same problem on a major part recurring is embarrasing.

[ArthurPE]

I can't find a HP calculator that comes up with less than 400+ HP, usually >425HP
using a wt of 4000 to 4100 lbs loaded
trap of 108-111
ET of 12.8 to 13.1

use an average of 4000/110/13

http://www.engineersedge.com/calculator ... motive.htm 457 HP
http://www.gordon-glasgow.org/hpcalc.html 484 HP
http://www.race-cars.net/calculators/et_calculator.html 415 (rear wheel!)
http://robrobinette.com/et.htm using a crank HP =420, wt = 4000, calculated ET 13 flat
http://www.matmoranmotorsports.com/ETcalculator.htm HP =420, wt = 4000, calculated ET ~ 12.93



the car is actually heavier US curb wt is ~ 3950 lbs, unladen...so a real wt is closer to 4100 lbs

[ArthurPE]

It was a significant - do you think it never made it to the Board more than once. But of course they will and can fix it.

I was not referring to a financial setback, but in any event Audi is a volume producer, with the number of RS's sold being an insignificant number. But as I have said many times already, the RS package is great. And no it is no Lancia, or an Alfa, or a Maserati.

The percentage of RS cars being affected by DRC is mega compared to the non RS Audi suspension issues.

You did, because it is still happening. The same problem on a major part recurring is embarrasing.

the Audi corp board is not involved in this issue, are you kidding?
that is not even within their scope of responibilities
you are making stuff up


what is your point then?
do you have one?
other than hyperbole and misinformation

<1% of all RS4's have had their supsension (or any compnent) replaced, hardly 'mega'...you can't use internet polls, you only hear the people like you in those...

embarressing who? you speak for corporate Audi?

still waiting for pics of your slug, errr car...

[ArthurPE]

....No-one is ignoring the pace at which these cars move, but that is actually irrelevant to the question posed. No-one should also ignore the countless mentions of the power output problems

you are ignoring them, in fact you say the 'pace' is not related (irrelevant) to power..

are you kidding?

HP and speed are not related?
you have lost what little (if any) credibility you had

here's a little equation:
F = ma
F = force or torque (power is torque over time)
m = mass
a = acceleration or 'pace'

[ArthurPE]

No-one is ignoring the pace at which these cars move, but that is actually irrelevant to the question posed. No-one should also ignore the countless mentions of the power output problems

So you are now suggesting that you can divorce published pace from published power ? Acknowledge one and doubt the other?

As already stated you cannot accurately measure engine power on a rolling road only on a bench dynometer free of ancillaries.

actually engines are rated with:
alternator
power steering pump
AC compressor (not engaged)
water pump/cooling fans, if engine driven
and all electrical powered devics (ECU, fuel pumps, etc.) required for the engine to operate

[Terry1948]

Sims do you feel you have been short changed by audi? If you genuinely think this you should take audi to task Varsity did and I admire him for this but my car has given me nothing but enjoyment no drc problems (fact)( it feels as it is delivering the power (subjective). I have no faith in rolling roads so it would be pointless for me to go down that road. As you can see a lot of people do have faith in their cars to deliver the quoted power. There is no answer to your question unless you are prepared to take your engine out and put it on a bench dyno.

[P_G]

Please give this one up sims because in reality from the answers you have provided against my comments you changed the context of what you asked and the thread is going nowhere.

Worry is an emotional state which you do not know the board at Audi had when they signed off a redesign of DRC.

If it is not a financial or brand credibility setback, what kind of setback were you referring to?

Percentage vs percnetage wise yes it is large, but actual percentage of numbers of cars built by Audi with this problem, tiny.

And what is still happening? DRC problems? More than likely but what I referred to is the number that had failed post upgraded parts fitment. IIRC Camberley Audi, one of the supposed RS 'specialists' and probably one of the dealerships that sees the most RS4s by the sounds of what is being posted have not reported any DRC issues on any of the cars fitted with upgraded parts; a similar result as to my own circumstances.

Therefore safe to assume DRC may be an issue but it can be fixed. Power output, subjective at best, can be increased but while the majority of owners are happy with their cars output and it supposedly does what it says on the box then nothing will change.