Valves- carboning up

[ArthurPE]

Far out. I posted the Dyno Arthur. I posted what was told to me, and I'll soon post the pictures of the intake. Tomorrow my mechanic is going to remove the manifold again. Quick dob me in to Audi because I'm saying people can make mistakes.

Let me say, if the car wasn't pinging I'd still be driving around too, just thinking I've somehow just got used to the power. It's not hard to understand, is a human thing, but this is how things work, and I'm not sure that is written in a book you can read.

If you don't agree, move on to another thread and taunt them. This thread is for the real problem and solutions.

Luv, Mal

the 'real problem' is people perpuating myths for personal gain...
post the invoice, simple enough isn't it?

[ArthurPE]

with a name like '2manytoys' it is hard to take you seriously, sorry

The same apllies to Yanks.

what do you 'yank'?

[ArthurPE]

Good point Spoonz - lets get some costs of worst case senario.

Also to the "handbag" holders - this is a forum and everyones point of view should be considered.

A few points. While valves autorotate, the presence of carbon prevents this and eventually leads to carbon deposits getting burned into the seating face. Think the valve / valve seat interface is only single pint - not face to face so a small burn away will get larger very quickly.
And lastly - ALL engines get carboned up internally to some extent - no getting away from the fact. Fuel quality plays a very big part of this, hence possibly why Audi are blaming this. After all, very hard to prove otherwise.

in a properly functioning car deposits will not be a concern, it's only when one of the systems designed to prevent the build-up fails, does the cycle begin...

I wager all cars with build-up that impacted performance had other prior issues:
coils/misfires
intake flaps
poor fuel
extended oil services
never got hot for extended periods of time
etc.

and the deposits are a consequence of that failure...

this is much ado about nothing

[ArthurPE]

The sky is falling

lol

which member here is the 'boy who cried wolf'? lol

no one here has a PhD in mechanical engineering as it relates to the internal combustion engine, specifically the DI method of fuel delivery do they?

no one except the guys who have developed the engine over the last 10 years or so...

too many 'junior engineers' and not enough people enjoying the car...
it's a pity that so much $$$ is spent only to cause agony and discontent...
perk up boys, all is not lost!

go run some timed 3rd gear 3000-8000 runs
if it's <9 sec, all is well
an added benefit, it will clean the valves a bit...lol

[ArthurPE]

VW/Audi FSI patent http://www.google.com/patents?id=fLITAA ... q=&f=false

read page 20 of the patent: it is particularly significant...
it will explain what the intake butterfly (charge movement) valves are really for...to help clean/prevent the deposits.....

If by these you mean the vanes in the inlet manifold then my valves should get grunged up very quickly as I've removed mine. I'll take the manifold off in the Spring and see if there's been any significant build up of carbon.

very interesting...that would be an interesting test
start with 2 cars, baseline cleaned valves
run one each with/without the flaps
10k miles, do an inspection

did you notice the graph showing the REDUCTION in deposits by using the various methods? a 2 valve head, one with deposits, the other without, after 30 minutes they ~ equal...one got cleaned, the other fouled...for a longer duration they would have euqalized, ie, got no dirtier, nor cleaner, and I'm sure this is factored into their design...

[BlingBling]

You are so far up your own large American arse that it flew right over your head that he was taking the pish out of you. Classic

nice, slinging insults at the Country that saved you from learning the goose step

he was serious, read his other stuff, he's usually hawking an unapproved oil to run in the Audi

next time I want crap out of you I'll sqeeze your head, ok?
'bling bling', that says much about your mentality...and nothing good

Save us from the goose step? Typical American knows FA about anything outside their own state let alone country.

For your information if it was not for your leaders/banks, a certain Prescott Bush and his firends, bankrolling Hitlers war machine WWII would not have happened in the first place. These same persons/banks continued to provide him with assistance WWII.

In addition you only entered the war once Hitler decided to invade Russia and leave himself stretched up until then you showed no interest what so ever. The war would have ended in our favour without your assistance. He made the mistake that was his downfall.

Next you will be slagging of the French but before you do so remember if they had not provided you with assistance you would still be a colony.

I stand by my statement that you are so far up your own large dounut filled arse that you know nothing about everything.

[ArthurPE]

Save us from the goose step? Typical American knows FA about anything outside he own state let alone country.

For your information if it was not for your leaders/banks, a certain Prescott Bush and his firends, bankrolling Hitlers war machine WWII would not have happened in the first place. These same persons/banks continued to provide him with assistance WWII.

In addition you only entered the war once Hitler decided to invade Russia and leave himself stretched up until then you showed no interest what so ever.

Next you will be slagging of the French but before you do so remember if they had not provided you with assistance you would still be a colony.

I stand by my statement that your are so far up your large dounut filled arse that you know nothing about everything.

I stand by my statement, if I want crap from you (which seems to be in abundance) I will squeeze that hemorrhoid you call a head...

typical anti-American chatter...
we led your tony blair by the nose, we'll do the same to the next dimwit you elect...
now go get your rotten teeth fixed and buy some 'roid balm for your 'head'

you still smarting over the previous ass whoopin's we laid upon you in circa 1780 and 1812? get on ith it man, your country has real issues to deal with...

[SR71]

Its an old debate as any of the "new" owners would appreciate if they trawled back through the forum posts would find...

The OP most likely has two problems, one relating to contamination and the other to the operation of the power flap....judging by the shape of the curve...

Arthur hopes the small increments get lost in the waterfall of figures he'll bombard you with...

0-100 in 12? Thats poor when considering the 10.9 claims.

3000-8000rpm in <9? A few posts ago 8.3 was a good time.

ET 12.9 versus 13.5, trap @ 105 versus 112?

Plug the figures into a hp calculator and see these small increments mean BIG power differences.

My guess is the issue has no momentum because neither the V8 M3 community nor the Mercedes community is really affected at the moment. I think the only C-class Merc thats DI at the moment is the C350. The 6.2 W156 certainly isn't...

The Lexus ISF runs a DI 5.0L but the number of ISF's in the UK must be tiny.

I gather the Porsche 997 community are starting to have some issues with DI?

The average RS4 owner just isn't that interested in the issue so there is an impasse.

Like Rob says, if it bothers you, you just have to factor in the cost of a clean every 2 years.

Well worth it I reckon, because anyone who thinks its healthy for an engine to have that volume of s**t anywhere near its highly sophisticated moving parts ought to go back to playshool and Lego....

IMHO of course!



Yet again, its the politicians fault...

[HYFR]

lol

[ArthurPE]

Its an old debate as any of the "new" owners would appreciate if they trawled back through the forum posts would find...

The OP most likely has two problems, one relating to contamination and the other to the operation of the power flap....judging by the shape of the curve...

Arthur hopes the small increments get lost in the waterfall of figures he'll bombard you with...

0-100 in 12? Thats poor when considering the 10.9 claims.

3000-8000rpm in <9? A few posts ago 8.3 was a good time.

ET 12.9 versus 13.5, trap @ 105 versus 112?

Plug the figures into a hp calculator and see these small increments mean BIG power differences.

My guess is the issue has no momentum because neither the V8 M3 community nor the Mercedes community is really affected at the moment. I think the only C-class Merc thats DI at the moment is the C350. The 6.2 W156 certainly isn't...

The Lexus ISF runs a DI 5.0L but the number of ISF's in the UK must be tiny.

I gather the Porsche 997 community are starting to have some issues with DI?

The average RS4 owner just isn't that interested in the issue so there is an impasse.

Like Rob says, if it bothers you, you just have to factor in the cost of a clean every 2 years.

Well worth it I reckon, because anyone who thinks its healthy for an engine to have that volume of s**t anywhere near its highly sophisticated moving parts ought to go back to playshool and Lego....

IMHO of course!



Yet again, its the politicians fault...

every US test I've seen 0-100 >11, usually mid 11's...
that's with professional test driver, which we are not...
8.3 is less than 9, the average is 8.5 or so for a stock car in ideal conditions, so '<9' as oppossed to >15 would indicate tthe performance is acceptable...you are talking 1/10th's as oppossed to 5 secs...see the difference?

diesels seem to still be on the road, DI since year one...
why are they not effected?

The OP most likely has two problems, one relating to contamination and the other to the operation of the power flap....judging by the shape of the curve...

hmmmm, perhaps the power flap caused the deposits?
the HP calculators always put HP>420 for 13/110/4000 lb

google for the issue, you'll see:
RI-a6
RI-rs4
bob the oil guy
silverrs4
almost in every single thread...

if you want to believe it's a problem and worry about it, feel free, but why try to convinve others to be company in your misery?

[DrGold]

Arthur - Whatever the rights and wrongs of this never ending debate, you need to relax a bit - if it doesn't matter to you then kick back and enjoy............no point stressing!

[pippyrips]

I loved my RS4 and even though I’ve now sold her I still love the car for what it was/is - overall it’s a brilliant car.

I don't consider myself to be trying to convince others to be company in my misery either - far from it. If I was I would have posted far more detail on what was found during my time trying to cure the issue.

It’s Christmas so let’s leave the insults out but Arthur, people who have no vested interest in any oil or anything else for that matter have investigated and physically proved that it is an issue and does affect performance.

As said before it comes down to whether you are bothered by it or not – simples!

[ArthurPE]

Arthur - Whatever the rights and wrongs of this never ending debate, you need to relax a bit - if it doesn't matter to you then kick back and enjoy............no point stressing!

no stress at all, but when one denigrates your country and personally attacks you respond in kind...

honestly I love my car, it's fine, and void of deposits lol
other than exterior grime from all the road trash from the snow!

peace & cheers in the Holiday season

[PetrolDave]

Guys - we're all getting carried away with our "beliefs" (a bit like climate activists...). I've watched with dismay as this turned into personal attacks - which makes us all look more like schoolboys than adults.

I have to agree with ArthurPE that if a car is running times as good as or better than spec then there is nothing wrong with the engine in it.

There's not normally one factor that causes an engine to lose performance, it's usually a combination of things - and some of those will create carbon deposits.

Engines DO generate internal deposits and general "nastiness" and over time we all know that the power output of an engine will, to a smaller or larger extent, be affected by that - does anyone know of a 50 year old car that hasn't been the subject of major rework that still produces manufacturers spec figures?

I think we all need to enjoy our cars more and stop looking for "problems" to investigate.

[BlingBling]

I stand by my statement, if I want crap from you (which seems to be in abundance) I will squeeze that hemorrhoid you call a head...

typical anti-American chatter...
we led your tony blair by the nose, we'll do the same to the next dimwit you elect...
now go get your rotten teeth fixed and buy some 'roid balm for your 'head'

you still smarting over the previous ass whoopin's we laid upon you in circa 1780 and 1812? get on ith it man, your country has real issues to deal with...

No anti american rhetoric at all. It’s history. Go look it up.

Yes Blair was down a garden path. The only saving grace is that the public did not buy any of his lies. Where as your fellow gullable obese yanks were totally won over by Fox news and dubya. I am surprised that your dimwit nation did not vote in John McCain and his Barbie doll vice president. What a joke. I always remember her stating she had the credentials to deal with Russia because she sees it every morning when she gets up. Way to go….Mind you there is 2012? Lord help us.

Please bear in mind that the war was not won irrespective of what your southern hill billy, draft dodging leader proclaimed on some aircraft carrier. Oh on the subject of wars at least we can say we have a fair few in our long history. Also that we are not afraid to take on similar sized nations. You guys pick wars which you think you can win. How did it go in indo China? Sent packing with your tails between your legs by a rag tag army.

You think that the UK has issues? Well at least I can get medical health care without worrying about a bill or whether an operation will be sanctioned by some accountant, 6 weeks full paid holiday every year, full sick pay for up to 6 months, a rich heritage, paid paternity pay. Know that my Wife can have 1 yr maternity, 3 months fully paid the remainder at a reduced rate. Also full knowledge that her job will be there at the end. I will take my countries issues over yours any day.

Your broke over weight dump has had its time, move aside. You are currently China’s gimps so go begging asking them to add value to your third world currency..

Defend your hell hole all you like. You cannot polish a turd.