Valves- carboning up

[ArthurPE]

So whats the best plan??? Just live with it?? Not trying to be flippant, just a question.

what are the options? teeth gnashing and hand wringing?
'worrying' over things you have no control over and that don't really matter?
if you are doing that, sell the car...it's not worth the anxiety lol

as long as mine brings a smile to my face and can run 0-100 in <12 sec, I'm copacetic

as I said I just timed mine, less than 1 hour ago, 3 runs, 3k-8k/3rd gear
~8.5 sec, I'm sure with a 'run' (starting at say 2000 or so, I started at ~3000) I could do better...that's as good as any test I've seen...
I know my car bounces of the speed limiter...easily...

I mean honestly, my OBC lists my avg speed as 40 mph since new...
and the speed limit is 65...

diesels have had DI since conceived, and do 25k+ mile oil changes using mineral oil, and yes they have valve deposits, and no, they don't lose performance...they pull as strong at 100k as new, accounting for ring wear...and they don't pull the heads every 3k miles to clean the valves...

people have to make their own choice...but after having an e46 M3 engine frag on me, fouled valves aren't worth the effort to worry...

[pippyrips]

Pretty much - if you are concerned about it factor in a clean every once in while; if not no problem..

[ArthurPE]

there seems to be 2 mindsets around here:

1 I 'have' to drive an RS4, oh woe is me...

2 I 'get' to drive an RS4, oh boy!

[2manytoys]

Does Arthur work for an Audi dealer?

Are you seriously for-real? So your car is good, that's great, but if you think because your car is ok everyone else is the same, that's just wrong. No offense, but maybe the service manual or tech manual you've studied says it doesn't happen, but I can tell you now, I have it from Audi Australia and Audi Germany that my fix was carbon build up.

I come on here to simply add what happen, the facts from a real mechanic, and all I see you doing is dismissing it because you car is ok. Please, it's a problem that other people that may not have experianced it yet should understand.

[ArthurPE]

Does Arthur work for an Audi dealer?

Are you seriously for-real? So your car is good, that's great, but if you think because your car is ok everyone else is the same, that's just wrong. No offense, but maybe the service manual or tech manual you've studied says it doesn't happen, but I can tell you now, I have it from Audi Australia and Audi Germany that my fix was carbon build up.

I come on here to simply add what happen, the facts from a real mechanic, and all I see you doing is dismissing it because you car is ok. Please, it's a problem that other people that may not have experianced it yet should understand.

no

yes

post the service slips

with a name like '2manytoys' it is hard to take you seriously, sorry

[ArthurPE]

VW/Audi FSI patent http://www.google.com/patents?id=fLITAA ... q=&f=false

it describes the mechanisms they have put in place to minimize deposits, ie, hot valves, etc.
very interesting

I also searched the net: most of the 'issues' come back to a couple of common user names, 'bob the oil guy' being one, the other 2 or 3 I'll leave up to your imagination...lol

how many RS4's sold 5000? 10000?
how many instances of issues can you find?
how many of the people touting the issue want to sell you something to 'fix' it?

read page 20 of the patent: it is particularly significant...
it will explain what the intake butterfly (charge movement) valves are really for...to help clean/prevent the deposits...among other design parameters: valve material, temperatures, etc.
and they also talk about operation: run high rpm (>3000), etc., to help the system(s) do their job better, page 17...not all the time, but intermintently, so the 'wives tale' is true...

another interesting fact: the valves take advantage of a natural consequence of their operation, they autorotate, which wpies the seats/lips clean continuously, preventing any build-up on the sealing surfaces...

if an engine accumulates deposits, it's because something is not working right, not a consequence of the design, and an engine working properly will not have issues with deposits...

if something is 'broken' (associated with the mechanisms designed to clean the valves), massive deposits will form, in a properly operating engine, with the normally expected deposits, the deposits will have no effect on the operation or output of the engine...

Audi has put far more thought into this process than we can ever hope to: we do not have the knowledge base available to them (PhD's in engineering, thermo, etc.), not to mention 100 years of designing/building engines, so we can't be expected to...then again, we can't 'assume' to either...

[2manytoys]

Far out. I posted the Dyno Arthur. I posted what was told to me, and I'll soon post the pictures of the intake. Tomorrow my mechanic is going to remove the manifold again. Quick dob me in to Audi because I'm saying people can make mistakes.

Let me say, if the car wasn't pinging I'd still be driving around too, just thinking I've somehow just got used to the power. It's not hard to understand, is a human thing, but this is how things work, and I'm not sure that is written in a book you can read.

If you don't agree, move on to another thread and taunt them. This thread is for the real problem and solutions.

Luv, Mal

[BlingBling]

Audi actually can eliminate carbon build-up with a custom tune. There is one such car. They pre-screened potential RS4 owners, and picked the owner with the most applicable credentials. To their surprise, only one owner actually filled in that blank. In fact, that owner provided enough background for a complete psychological profile. Audi management laughed with glee 'This guy is perfect!'. They gave that special car to him so that he could debase any actual evidence that shows up on forums.

BS

'pre-screened', lol, based on what parameters...
Audi laughed with glee!? and how would you know that?
you're taking a piss right?

I'll be sending this to AoA for a response...
some friendly advice: be careful what you post on behalf of Audi, it may be defamatory and legally addressable...

edit: message forwarded to Audi, this should be good, lol

You are so far up your own large American arse that it flew right over your head that he was taking the pish out of you. Classic

[BlingBling]

with a name like '2manytoys' it is hard to take you seriously, sorry

The same apllies to Yanks.

[spoonz]

I see handbags

Ok so presuming "some" cars suffer this to a degree that impacts performance. And we also presume that the valves need "cleaning" every 12 months or so.

How big a job is it? Who can do it? and what is the estimated cost?

Just being a good boy scout and doing the due diligence worst case scenario before I make the decision

[aidanjaye]

I see handbags

Ok so presuming "some" cars suffer this to a degree that impacts performance. And we also presume that the valves need "cleaning" every 12 months or so.

How big a job is it? Who can do it? and what is the estimated cost?

Just being a good boy scout and doing the due diligence worst case scenario before I make the decision

Good point Spoonz - lets get some costs of worst case senario.

Also to the "handbag" holders - this is a forum and everyones point of view should be considered.

A few points. While valves autorotate, the presence of carbon prevents this and eventually leads to carbon deposits getting burned into the seating face. Think the valve / valve seat interface is only single pint - not face to face so a small burn away will get larger very quickly.
And lastly - ALL engines get carboned up internally to some extent - no getting away from the fact. Fuel quality plays a very big part of this, hence possibly why Audi are blaming this. After all, very hard to prove otherwise.

[P_G]

Quotes I have had in the UK vary anywhere between £500 and £2000 dependent on who does it for you and severity of carbon build up / no. of man hours needed to clean it up.

[caldy]

VW/Audi FSI patent http://www.google.com/patents?id=fLITAA ... q=&f=false

read page 20 of the patent: it is particularly significant...
it will explain what the intake butterfly (charge movement) valves are really for...to help clean/prevent the deposits.....

If by these you mean the vanes in the inlet manifold then my valves should get grunged up very quickly as I've removed mine. I'll take the manifold off in the Spring and see if there's been any significant build up of carbon.

[sonny]

The sky is falling

[ArthurPE]

You are so far up your own large American arse that it flew right over your head that he was taking the pish out of you. Classic

nice, slinging insults at the Country that saved you from learning the goose step

he was serious, read his other stuff, he's usually hawking an unapproved oil to run in the Audi

next time I want crap out of you I'll sqeeze your head, ok?
'bling bling', that says much about your mentality...and nothing good