No more seafoam...no more scraping. You excited?

[sakimano]

so far we've learned that some folks on RS246 think:

a) shaving 0.9 seconds off a 13.1 quarter mile time for a stock car is 'not that big of a deal'
b) that 13.1 for a stock RS4 at a certified track is 'slow' (even though none of the people saying it's slow have ever done better)
c) that a pbox time = an NHRA or IHRA certified dragstrip time
d) "The only way to really get more power out of a N/A car once you've got the basic breathing issues sorted is to cam the crap out of it and increase revs."

PG - Please go to an NHRA approved dragstrip and then show me your time...not a Pbox/Vbox time. Not a gtech time or Dynolicious. They're all fun devices (I have pbox and a gtech), however none of it equals a grade certified NHRA or IHRA dragstrip. Try Santa Pod. My Gtech showed me 4.39-4.40 0-60 mph times and 5.30-5.40 330 foot times. This would translate to high 12s in the quarter mile. Of course an actual dragstrip is a different place to roads in your neighborhood. I think I could scrape out a 12.9 @ 107 on a good day if I could launch the car more effectively. Looking forward to trying it in a couple of weeks.

While we're at it...does anyone have a timeslip or video of a stock Rs4 running 12.6 at an NHRA/IHRA certified dragstrip? I'm betting no. I think you'll struggle to find anyone going 12.999 or better. Or 13.14 or better. Looking forward to seeing the results. Other than Richard Jeans one run in Australia (12.884@108.0) I've seen no evidence that anyone has run their stock RS4 at a certified dragstrip faster than 13.14 funny enough. From the sounds of it, there are plenty lol.

[P_G]

Here we go again! You missed the point as usual saki. I did ask you for the conditions but rather then respond to that you went up in a red light because I suggested your times were slow.

You are running a saloon which is lighter than a laden Avant and what temps and conditions I don't know (which is why I asked the question in the first place). So because I have not run at a drag strip specified by you my results are not worthy? How many people have the opportunity or more importantly the insurance to do such things? V-Box recordings from my research and understanding from what I have been told by various parties are pretty accurate. You are happy to see the readout and acknoledge the data from one when talking about superchargers on other threads but when used to compare against your results it's not good enough?

As much as you say a drag strip is a more accurate measurement the strip itself is artificial in terms of its surface and environment so what you add in time by more accurate measurement some will be lost in a grippier more consistent track surface so perhaps an overall net addition of fractions. If you had said the conditions were x, y and z then it would have made more sense. But all said, the gains you say one can get from JHM could all be negated out by the OEM car driver geting a better launch than the JHM modified car or any modified car for that matter with the latter passing them (perhaps) (because we are only talking about a second here) some way down the line so at that stage I would still question whether the 3k I had spent on JHM's stuff was worth it?

Do you ever wonder why you have so much bother on so many forums where the others involved on the whole are different every time?

Anyway, this is all digressing from the topic of the thread which is until such times as some demonstrable irrefutable proof is provided regarding this solution I suspect the majority of us will reserve judgement and our excitement on this latest innovation if that is genuinely what it is.

[adsgreen]

I think it's time to re-post this as the best way of elimination carbon from the manifold.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oet4qWeZuYA

[Stoffle32]

Id have to agree with the 13.16 being a slowish time for an Rs4, without knowing the conditions...
In JHB SA, 3 Rs4's have run 13.6 and one 13.4 constantly all cars are stock and running on 95ron not even the recommend 98ron, not using V-Box etc.. but approved track timing that our Tracks use. Now JHB is 1600m above sea level and we get roughly a 17% loss in power because of the altitude, runs where done on a non-preped track at around 20 degrees Celsius or 68F ... So in otherwords we should easily be able to dip into the 12's

As for the Carbon cleaning im interested to see but not holding my breath either, i dont think its a good idea to market it something before its even released because if the results turn out to be wrong JHM are going to look awfully stupid

[sakimano]

Here we go again! You missed the point as usual saki. I did ask you for the conditions but rather then respond to that you went up in a red light because I suggested your times were slow.
You are running a saloon which is lighter than a laden Avant and what temps and conditions I don't know (which is why I asked the question in the first place). So because I have not run at a drag strip specified by you my results are not worthy? How many people have the opportunity or more importantly the Insurance to do such things? V-Box recordings from my research and understanding from what I have been told by various parties are pretty accurate. You are happy to see the readout and acknoledge the data from one when talking about superchargers on other threads but when used to compare against your results it's not good enough?

As much as you say a drag strip is a more accurate measurement the strip itself is artificial in terms of its surface and environment so what you add in time by more accurate measurement some will be lost in a grippier more consistent track surface so perhaps an overall net addition of fractions. If you had said the conditions were x, y and z then it would have made more sense. But all said, the gains you say one can get from JHM could all be negated out by the OEM car driver geting a better launch than the JHM modified car or any modified car for that matter with the latter passing them (perhaps) (because we are only talking about a second here) some way down the line so at that stage I would still question whether the 3k I had spent on JHM's stuff was worth it?

Conditions were EXCELLENT. Cool, and at 600 feet altitude. Density Altitude was about 300-500 feet when I ran.

Your suggestion that my times were slow was based on your own pbox times...and that's just not a good metric, sorry. As I said, lets see some faster stock times...anything near 12.6 would be refreshing. Nobody that I've seen has done anything close to that. As I said the only 12.XXX time we've seen for a stock car was Richard Jeans.

I'm not insulted to be called slow lol...I know a stock RS4 is slow. My B7 S4 was faster for heaven's sake. I just know that my car is not 'slow' relative to your run as using a pbox/gtech/dynolicious, calibrated by you, and run on a road that may or may ot be flat (and is certainly not up-grade like most certified dragstrips) is hardly a fair comparison. Conditions everywhere are different, but at least we can eliminate the variables with flat NHRA/IHRA tracks and NHRA/IHRA tested timing equipment rather than a personal handheld device on a country road.

If you want, take all the cargo out of your avant (which in itself is only what...50-100 lbs more than a sedan? I weigh 245 lbs...that's 17.5 stone), run your car, and then send me your PBOX log.

I will do the same with my car and my own racelogic PBOX file and we'll compare. If the grade is more than 2% toss your file in the garbage and find a flatter road. This may be a challenge for you as I think you're in the north...and now you'll see why I don't want to compare a PBOX to my dragstrip time. I will say this...if your Avant beats my Sedan (PBOX for PBOX, controlled grade) I'll send you a 5er for you to buy a pint of brown lol.

As for 'sticky track' it is really only a benefit for big tire cars, slick shod cars or RWD cars who have done a serious burnout to warm up their setup. For an RS4 the track is smoothe enough to induce wheel spin on a cold day...rather than limit it. As I showed, on a dead flat road, my GTECH showed 4.39-4.40 0-60mpm times, but at the strip it was more like 4.50-4.55. We were there with a group of 6 Audis, all S/RS, all quattro, and nobody had a great go of it with the track surface. We all struggled.

[sakimano]

By the way...I still haven't seen anyone post a timeslip or video of a 12.XX stock RS4 quarter mile run. Still just Richard Jeans at 12.88...and that's it for all of earth??? Plenty of keyboard racing though.

Looking forward to seeing the videos and timeslips...and looking forward to seeing someone hold a candle to 12.28 @ 112 lol.

[Rick_RS4]

come on boys calm down, at the end of the day we all want the same end results, i am sceptical of the carboniser but ill hold out until i see results, I wouldnt go shitting down Sakimano's neck either, ok hes a bit JHM happy but as he stated and could be seen ''everyone'' goes on about miltec being the best thing since sliced bread, theyre not, ive fitted some in the past to S2s which looked more restrictive than stock, dont want to start a slagging thread about miltek either or go off topic.

to be fair we should be pleased JHM are actually doing something performance wise for our cars, unless we want to go forced induction theres nothing out there,

[ArthurPE]

By the way...I still haven't seen anyone post a timeslip or video of a 12.XX stock RS4 quarter mile run. Still just Richard Jeans at 12.88...and that's it for all of earth??? Plenty of keyboard racing though.

Looking forward to seeing the videos and timeslips...and looking forward to seeing someone hold a candle to 12.28 @ 112 lol.

most people that own these cars don't give a rats ass about drag times...it's not what this car is about...most people just don't care, these aren't mustangs or camaros or nor are their buyrs of the same mind-set
and those that do 'care' are trying to sell you something

trap speed is a better indicator of power/torque increase, and 108-110 is not unheard of for an RS4...almost all tests in ideal conditons achieved that range with a high of 111

why are you such a promoter of jhm?
I'm not sure modding a car in violation of federal (and most state) laws is a sound idea

[sakimano]

By the way...I still haven't seen anyone post a timeslip or video of a 12.XX stock RS4 quarter mile run. Still just Richard Jeans at 12.88...and that's it for all of earth??? Plenty of keyboard racing though.

Looking forward to seeing the videos and timeslips...and looking forward to seeing someone hold a candle to 12.28 @ 112 lol.

most people that own these cars don't give a rats ass about drag times...it's not what this car is about...most people just don't care, these aren't mustangs or camaros or nor are their buyrs of the same mind-set
and those that do 'care' are trying to sell you something

trap speed is a better indicator of power/torque increase, and 108-110 is not unheard of for an RS4...almost all tests in ideal conditons achieved that range with a high of 111

why are you such a promoter of jhm?
I'm not sure modding a car in violation of federal (and most state) laws is a sound idea

I already said that I knew someone would say 'these aren't drag cars' but as P_G showed (an educated non-troglodyte, and I'd bet a Coke, probably an engineer like you) everyone loves to measure their performance. You do it with your 3k-8k test. Lots of people like 0-60. Others like 60-130. Others still like to see the 1/4 mile. It's just a test Arthur...it doesn't define the car. You made a comment about Camaros and Mustangs. Funny, one of the cars at the strip was driven by a retired P. engineer (late model Mustang GT500). He has invested about $60,000 in his car (had a TVS2300 supercharger), and ran 10 second quarter mile times like he was going for groceries. The new Mustang GT would likely trounce an RS4 around a road course (if you believe Car & Driver or Motor Trend) which is supposedly what the RS4 is 'all about'.

Anyway, there are plenty of RS4 owners who have taken their car to a proper dragstrip despite it not being what the car is all about...however NONE appear to be running in the 12s other than Richard Jeans when stock.

As for why I'm a 'promotor' of JHM, it's simple...their stuff works Arthur. They're good guys, they make great parts for our cars, and dare I say it...they're the only ones to have ANY considerable level of success on the 4.2 platforms. When I first bought my S4, I was fortunate enough to see other 'promotors' of JHM show and other succesful companies share their success with certain parts on their cars. It stopped me from making a $10,000 mistake (VF Engineering Supercharger kit) as I realised I could get the same results with simple bolt on exhaust and tune mods. The forums are an open discussion place where facts and results get reviewed and vetted independently by the users. Not having the whole story is horrible (as I almost found out). If I share success JHM or APR or Michelin or whomever has, and it's relevant to our platform...don't you think you should maybe consider the information on offer rather than always looking for dark clouds? The funny thing is nobody can refute the results, so they instead try another angle in order to be unhappy with the post. Find a conspiracy. How about being happy about the progress?

[sakimano]

As I said...tough to find anyone even faster than my time stock or modded, let alone in the 12s stock.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAqXrvugC5U 12.88 (only one in the 12s)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJQnWOT7zXs 13.02 (only other NA RS4 faster than my time, but not stock)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzwsBQWTGI0 13.7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmHs4wuBNQs 14.0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yz5MyJ-WA_w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_Tl4GAYobo 13.3 @ 104
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WykVOcQhgUQ 13.4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb_6sXPLz6c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WykVOcQhgUQ 13.4 @ 105 (same track I went to ironically)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wofYjS-g__8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HjDXcHlAkE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wofYjS-g__8 13.7

supercharged times
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXuQ8ejqOtg 12.56 at altitude (APR kit)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrzMB4N4PHs 12.6 at 111 (PES kit)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx0EBeRp54w 11.8 @ 116 (APR kit)

[adsgreen]

You really need to take step back.
There's one of two things going on here...
Either
1) you are directly or indirectly involved commercially with JHM
2) you are a passionate customer

The problem is that it doesnt matter which one you are, your methods are verging on the counter productive. It may work across the pond but you are basically bullying people into these products and I think it's safe to say on a predominately UK forum that's just going to piss people off to the point where they will look elsewhere. So even if you are not involved with JHM you really ain't doing them any favours with your posting...

[bam_bam]

I just don't get it, what is sakimano selling anyways?
Is he selling 1/4 mile times? YouTube videos? PBOX files? Millteks or Terminators made out of carbon?
To me, he just seems really intent on us finding a stock RS4 1/4 mile time that is somewhere near 12.6... Whatever the hell that means.

If this thread was a car journey and sakimano was driving, me and all the cool kids would be sat in the back repeating "ARE WE THERE YET?"

I'm out.

[S4Player]

I ran 12.3 (m90) and 11.7 (m112),stock I ran 13.xx car made 385ps when it was stock

[PetrolDave]

most people that own these cars don't give a rats ass about drag times.

+1

Any dumb ass in an ill handing over powered POS can go quick in a straight line on a wide high grip piece of tarmac.

For me what makes cars like the RS4 great is the combination of power and, more importantly, handling and agility.

To illustrate on a different scale - I could get from Wymondham to the Lotus factory quicker in my (then) Renault 5 GT Turbo (which had been mildly tuned by BBR Racing) than one of the Lotus ride & handling expert drivers could in a Lotus Esprit.

On paper, and in a straight line, the Esprit should have left me miles behind in it's wake but the handling & agility of my (cheap as chips) 5 GT Turbo gave me the edge, even though I'm in no way as good a driver as the guy piloting the Esprit was.

Handling and agility will beat raw power on any "drivers road".

[PhilT]

Oh my, how has RS246 survived for 10 years without such an educational thread.... Hold on, I remember. We've been through these threads million times. Dyno this, tuner that, turbo this, super charger that.... Thankfully we don't have the drag strip discussion too often as we tend to focus more on enjoying our cars. For some that is a weekend toy and for others it is a daily passion. What makes RS246 different is that we all respect each other. Sure, make your point, but don't carry on like a broken record.