Pictures of my inlet ports....

[P_G]

They are for you but assuming I still had warranty and showed Audi UK and my dealer a r/r graph that said 358 bhp and said I wanted my engine cleaned because it was due to carbon build up they'd laugh me out of the dealership.

It can be recognised as an issue in some cars dependent on how they are driven / used; the distinction that needs to be made is the contributing factor to excessive carbon build up that causes issues because as has been said time and again DI engines will have carbon build up as part of their normal operating life. It's what causes the excess to the point of issue that you need to be looking at. Cleaned valves will produce more power but again everyone is of the belief that that extra power brings it up to the mark it should be rather than perhaps taking it beyond standard rating.

To support this I have asked one of my colleagues since he is an engineering nutter who has a 996 Turbo to open up his intake manifold and take some pics of his valves. If he does it and his car has been power verified on a load dyno as over rating and gets the pics I will share but he and I are pretty sure his valves will be as clogged with 30k miles on his car.

[Sims]

They are for you but assuming I still had warranty and showed Audi UK and my dealer a r/r graph that said 358 bhp and said I wanted my engine cleaned because it was due to carbon build up they'd laugh me out of the dealership.

It can be recognised as an issue in some cars dependent on how they are driven / used; the distinction that needs to be made is the contributing factor to excessive carbon build up that causes issues because as has been said time and again DI engines will have carbon build up as part of their normal operating life. It's what causes the excess to the point of issue that you need to be looking at. Cleaned valves will produce more power but again everyone is of the belief that that extra power brings it up to the mark it should be rather than perhaps taking it beyond standard rating.

I suppose that's what all this discussion is about - so that we don't get laughed out if there is a problem.

Did dealerships laugh people out when people 1st complained about DRC or the buckled wheels (B5)? Audi is not unique in this - all manufacturers do this, automotive & others. Your Porsche friend will no doubt give examples - I heard something abut RMS. BMW - Vanos, denied for so long. And oh yes, the A class was stable from the beginning. Renault & its bonnets? The list goes on. Did GSK deny negative effects of Avandia for 5 years, and have now started the payouts.... It happens everywhere, and it is for us as consumers to safeguard our positions and continue to enjoy our purchase and give loyalty.

How they are being used/driven should be stated at point of purchase if it is likely to be a problem. Do all DI engine clog up at the same rate, and have the same effect? I doubt it.

If you were a prospective RS5 purchaser, and you were shown pictures of the clogged up valves, and told how to drive the car, what would you say?

[Sims]

How they are being used/driven should be stated at point of purchase if it is likely to be a problem. Do all DI engine clog up at the same rate, and have the same effect? I doubt it.

If you were a prospective RS5 purchaser, and you were shown pictures of the clogged up valves, and told how to drive the car, what would you say?

I repeat what has been stated elsewhere to get a jist of what this is about:

Factors that promote “Carbon build-upâ€

[Blue_Thunder]

Sims, you forgot to mention the Ford Pinto which exploded easily and trapped the doors shut if involved in a rear ender!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Pinto ... nd_scandal

[2manytoys]

I notice that I typically drive between 2000-3000 rpm. This is along the express way, or even in traffic zones (cruising). Obviously I hit the 5000rpm and 7000rpm at times, but cruising between 2-3000.

When crusing, what revs do most people cruise at?

I notice the user manual recommends above 2000rpm. Could my cruise rpm be contributing?

[Sims]

Sims, you forgot to mention the Ford Pinto which exploded easily and trapped the doors shut if involved in a rear ender!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Pinto ... nd_scandal

Thanks. . No doubt there are countless more..

As we all recognise, it's all about business and damage limitation. As an aside, I do think the rush to market & short product life cycles has a lot to answer for. Would it not be so dissapointing if the RS5 also suffered DRC issues when the system has been out for 8 years or so.

[Sims]

I notice that I typically drive between 2000-3000 rpm. This is along the express way, or even in traffic zones (cruising). Obviously I hit the 5000rpm and 7000rpm at times, but cruising between 2-3000.

When crusing, what revs do most people cruise at?

I notice the user manual recommends above 2000rpm. Could my cruise rpm be contributing?

Maybe this quote from another forum helps, and for another perspective:

I have my RS4 B7 now for for nerly 4 years and I have now over 100.000 KM on the clock; the engine runs like on the first day. I don’t have any “carbon build-upâ€

[SR71]

My guess will be if you open up a 996 Turbo you'll be able to eat your dinner off the manifold, because it isn't DI!

If it was a 997 Turbo, different kettle of fish!

[Sims]

My guess will be if you open up a 996 Turbo you'll be able to eat your dinner off the manifold, because it isn't DI!

If it was a 997 Turbo, different kettle of fish!

Does anyone know if the 997 Turbo suffers RR shortfalls because that too has inequal front to rear power transmission AFAIK.

[pippyrips]

My guess will be if you open up a 996 Turbo you'll be able to eat your dinner off the manifold, because it isn't DI!

If it was a 997 Turbo, different kettle of fish!

Does anyone know if the 997 Turbo suffers RR shortfalls because that too has inequal front to rear power transmission AFAIK.

From what i have heard & read, no.

Just picking up on an early quote - 'my car doesn't feel like it's lost power'.

There have been members on here who have driven round in complete ignorance to the fact they have been over 100bhp down (non carbon related) as the power loss happened over time.

Just like getting old, it’s not until you look at old pictures of yourself you realise you are deteriorating!

[P_G]

My guess will be if you open up a 996 Turbo you'll be able to eat your dinner off the manifold, because it isn't DI!

If it was a 997 Turbo, different kettle of fish!

If that is the case I stand corrected. He suggests his car is DI so maybe it is a 997. Couldn't say as I have not seen it.

[ArthurPE]

talk about debunked

this is foisted on us as being from Audi

it is NOT from Audi or anybody who works for Audi

the RS5 engine is no different and will form deposits
good news, no power loss from them

How they are being used/driven should be stated at point of purchase if it is likely to be a problem. Do all DI engine clog up at the same rate, and have the same effect? I doubt it.

If you were a prospective RS5 purchaser, and you were shown pictures of the clogged up valves, and told how to drive the car, what would you say?

I repeat what has been stated elsewhere to get a jist of what this is about:

Factors that promote “Carbon build-upâ€

[ArthurPE]

let me be clear:

you are saying deposits cost 100 HP? and can't be felt?
and yet when cleaned members claim dynos show +20HP, they can feel it?
can't fell -100HP
can feel +20 HP
deposits cost 100HP?
deposits cost 20HP?
lot of contradictions in there, lol

From what i have heard & read, no.

Just picking up on an early quote - 'my car doesn't feel like it's lost power'.

There have been members on here who have driven round in complete ignorance to the fact they have been over 100bhp down (non carbon related) as the power loss happened over time.

Just like getting old, it’s not until you look at old pictures of yourself you realise you are deteriorating!

[ArthurPE]

Sims, you forgot to mention the Ford Pinto which exploded easily and trapped the doors shut if involved in a rear ender!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Pinto ... nd_scandal

hmmmm

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) put pressure on Ford to recall the Pinto, motivated by public outcry and pressure from groups such as Ralph Nader's Center for Auto Safety. Initially the NHTSA did not feel there was sufficient evidence to demand a recall due to incidents of fire. The 27 deaths attributed to Pinto fires is the same number of deaths attributed to a transmission problem in the Pinto, which resulted in 180 total deaths in all Ford vehicles, and in 1974 the NHTSA ruled that the Pinto had no "recallable" problem.[14]

However, a 1991 law review paper by Gary Schwartz[17] claimed the case against the Pinto was less clear-cut than commonly supposed. The number who died in Pinto rear-impact fires, according to Schwartz, was well below the hundreds cited in contemporary news reports and closer to the twenty-seven recorded by a limited National Highway Traffic Safety Administration database. Given the Pinto's production figures (over 2 million built), this was not substantially worse than typical for the time. Schwartz argued that the car was no more fire-prone than other cars of the time, that its fatality rates were lower than comparably sized imported automobiles, and that the supposed "smoking gun" document that plaintiffs claimed showed Ford's callousness in designing the Pinto was actually a document based on National Highway Traffic Safety Administration regulations about the value of a human life rather than a document containing an assessment of Ford's potential tort liability


in otherwords, it was media frenzy that whipped up thie issue, much like the deposit crusade, lol

[ArthurPE]

relatively accurate, for that day, that car and within 10-15%...

the shape of the curve is identical to flap failure
hence my comment in my first post when you posted it

my experience shows it doesn't happen at least due to deposits
no one has offered a mechansin why it would
I have offered many why it couldn't

Audi has NEVER acknowledge deposts as a power loss issue...
If you are stating otherwise I will ask them.......again

So now you are assuming the peak number from this dyno is accurate??? I thought you said they were not accurate so how do YOU know what the actual loss is??

Anyway, again, it's the shape of the curve. Many people have produced a similar graph, and many people have shown the curve returns to a normal curve once cleaned.

I think your inexperiance is showing that you don't know why it happens either. The difference between you and I is that I simply show the impact and results where as you mislead people by inexperiance and denial.

At least to the good people that read this forum, Audi have realised it's a problem and are cleaning it under warranty. Hats off to Audi for addressing this problem.