Valves- carboning up

[ArthurPE]

So you guys agree that no-one should be using words like:

"whore, choads (dick), loser, whiner etc " .

+1

Thank you for your support on that. You know who the culprit is, and I do hope he will no longer indulge in that practice and that we can share the vast knowledge/experience of all on this forum.

practice what you preach, you are the largest offender...

[ArthurPE]

we see that 2many had many stories:
audi fixed, then didn't
an indy shop did
then his pistons were pitted
then this,, then that...

all of a sudden, it's the flaps...a common problem, so common that there is an SIB...
we go full circle, and in the process he probably munched his engine with detonation damage...
all for what? a response to a non-existent problem? when all it was was the flaps, as I and others ponted out...instead others convinced him it was deposits...in my book, you are as responsible for hs engine damage as he is...

[ArthurPE]

we see that 2many had many stories:
audi fixed, then didn't
an indy shop did
then his pistons were pitted
then this,, then that...

all of a sudden, it's the flaps...a common problem, so common that there is an SIB...
we go full circle, and in the process he probably munched his engine with detonation damage...
all for what? a response to a non-existent problem? when all it was was the flaps, as I and others ponted out...instead others convinced him it was deposits...in my book, you are as responsible for hs engine damage as he is...

[HYFR]

in my book, you are as responsible for hs engine damage as he is...

LOL

[Sims]

practice what you preach, you are the largest offender...

That list I provided to DK was not complete, but you allege I am the largest offender.

I would be grateful for a full list, and then also list yours while you are at it.
Thank you. I know of one example where what I said was not in good taste.....

[Sims]

in my book, you are as responsible for hs engine damage as he is...

LOL

Who are you talking about?

[ArthurPE]

in my book, you are as responsible for hs engine damage as he is...

LOL

if the shoe fits, you know someone will insert it in their mouth

I feel for 2many, but heck, he should have just slowed down, instead he over-reacted...

I can see how it was missed:
the logic only looks to see if the switch makes when the flaps are actuated, not upon release...so if the switch stuck open, and the flaps were actuated (but did not respond) the ECU would think they had...

[2manytoys]

Gee, I stop coming here because of the Arthur Buildup and look what happens as soon as I'm back. It's his continuing denial that carbon doesn't cause problems, and sure, this may be the case in a car that only revs to 6000 rpm, but I guarentee it robs power above 6000rpm in our RS4's

For everyone else, let me make this super clear
1. Car performs bad, dyno graph shows flat from 6k
2. Many tests carried out by Audi (ECU, Flaps, plugs, etc can't remember)
3. Tests sent to Germany, and log shows "low air volume" (this was supervised by Audi Australia)
4. Manifold removed and "cleaned" by Audi. Feels better but not great
5. Indy cleans properly (no other changes) and power increase is huge after 6000rpm
6. MAF Sensor fails and power is gone again
7. MAF sensor replaced and power is back!
8. EPC and Engine light comes on about 2 months later
9. Power is gone again, and this time hits a rev limit at about 7000rpm
10. Vacuum leak inside the actuator is now found (this was NOT there before, that we know 100%)

Mal.

[2manytoys]

Also, check out this video. The owner of this car has no engine light and no EPC. It runs smooth, but there is no power after 6000rpm like mine has. I'd try to convince him to come to the Dyno and put both cars on, but I'd only be doing it to please one person that is in denial.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAiViR8x0Qo

[ArthurPE]

why must you insult me for my technical beliefs?
what does it matter to you what I believe?
I just don't get it...like you know something I don't
hopefully they'll sort it out and you can enjoy your machine

Gee, I stop coming here because of the Arthur Buildup and look what happens as soon as I'm back. It's his continuing denial that carbon doesn't cause problems, and sure, this may be the case in a car that only revs to 6000 rpm, but I guarentee it robs power above 6000rpm in our RS4's

For everyone else, let me make this super clear
1. Car performs bad, dyno graph shows flat from 6k
2. Many tests carried out by Audi (ECU, Flaps, plugs, etc can't remember)
3. Tests sent to Germany, and log shows "low air volume" (this was supervised by Audi Australia)
4. Manifold removed and "cleaned" by Audi. Feels better but not great
5. Indy cleans properly (no other changes) and power increase is huge after 6000rpm
6. MAF Sensor fails and power is gone again
7. MAF sensor replaced and power is back!
8. EPC and Engine light comes on about 2 months later
9. Power is gone again, and this time hits a rev limit at about 7000rpm
10. Vacuum leak inside the actuator is now found (this was NOT there before, that we know 100%)

Mal.

[2manytoys]

Because it's a continual denial. You are basically twisting my our words, when I post something new, that's not carbon, you immediately point to that. You are implying that I am lying when I say we cleaned the carbon and the power come back. It's insulting, given I'm only here to let everyone know my experiances. You state, without any fact (never tested this yourself) that carbon doesn't cause power loss, but between you and I, I am the only one that has removed the manifold, cleaned the carbon and felt the difference. Simple.

[ArthurPE]

it's only 'denial' if it's proven true...
this is not definitive, you believe one thing, I based on my personal comprehension, believe something else...
so that is reason for you demean me? becasue I don't think the deposits cause power loss? so that is the reason you paint me as less of a person?

I'm not implying you're 'lying', only that you are not sure what happened, because there were underlying causes you were not aware of...

others have cleaned the deposits and notice no difference
cars with deposits are as fast as those just cleaned
the 'facts', the science, the physics, the engineering, and my data base of over 100 runs now, indicate it makes no difference...
and yet, since I beleive this, you can insult me...I'm wrong, you're right, cut & dried...I don't say you're 'wrong', believe what you like, but I don't have to agree...and shouldn't be insulted just because I don't...it's wrong, plain & simple...wrong...

imo your manifold was damged by taking it on/off so many times...the sensors and/or actuators were damaged...

it may be 'simple' to you, but it's far more complex than you imagine...

Because it's a continual denial. You are basically twisting my our words, when I post something new, that's not carbon, you immediately point to that. You are implying that I am lying when I say we cleaned the carbon and the power come back. It's insulting, given I'm only here to let everyone know my experiances. You state, without any fact (never tested this yourself) that carbon doesn't cause power loss, but between you and I, I am the only one that has removed the manifold, cleaned the carbon and felt the difference. Simple.

[2manytoys]

Arthur, try to pay attention this time.

This is a little more detail for everyone else (I feel like I keep repeating myself)

1. Initially the car didn't feel like it lost power, the power loss was over about 6-9 months
2. The car started pinging at random, then it starting pinging many times a day (over about 2-4 months)
3. Gosford European Car Services monitored the timing advance, and noted this was only about 9-13 degrees under load (I understand it should be about 30 or higher)
4. Audi was looking for the cause of the pinging initially, not my complaints about power loss (no engine or EPC came up)
5. After sending the logs to Germany they are the ones that said the air volume was low, hence a carbon clean was needed, not me (I had no idea what it was, but did suspect carbon because of what I read).
6. When asked what was causing the pinging, I was told two things, either valves not seating correctly (carbon) or carbon falling into the chamber . Either way the pinging was gone after the carbon was clean

Now here is something interesting for everyone. I've had random pinging come back, and had told Audi about this. After looking at the vavles on Wednesday, you can see a chuck of carbon that has come off (you can see a match head size bit where you can see the shiny valve underneth). So, could that cause pinging? Could it also cause piston damage? Either way, it's not good.

Oh, I was also told that Audi are aware of the carbon problems on the 3.2 V6 but didn't think the RS4 would suffer the same problems. This points to at least a known problem, even if on another model. But again, I'm repeating myself.

[ArthurPE]

I pay attention everytime, but your stories are like moving targets...

your belief that I can't comprehend and am dumb and in denial can be looked at several ways:
1 I don't understand but could be right
2 I don't understand and am wrong
3 I do understand and just don't agree, no one knows who's 'right or wrong'
4 I do understand and am right
5 I do understandand am wrong
6 you are not being intelligible

you only believe options 2 & 5 are possible

so you persist with the insults, ie, 'try to pay attention this time'
don't be smug and condescending, does not strengthen your argument...just the opposite...

Audi US (or AG as far as I know) has never acknowledged deposits as a problem...
they are currently performing a campaign to inspect several cars of folks who wrote them a letter...first car, deposits not an issue (per Audi, take it for what it's worth) but they did find a vacuum leak due to disconnected exhaust flap actuator hoses...aftermarket exhaust...they fixed it, and the owner said the car feels alive again...

Arthur, try to pay attention this time.

This is a little more detail for everyone else (I feel like I keep repeating myself)

1. Initially the car didn't feel like it lost power, the power loss was over about 6-9 months
2. The car started pinging at random, then it starting pinging many times a day (over about 2-4 months)
3. Gosford European Car Services monitored the timing advance, and noted this was only about 9-13 degrees under load (I understand it should be about 30 or higher)
4. Audi was looking for the cause of the pinging initially, not my complaints about power loss (no engine or EPC came up)
5. After sending the logs to Germany they are the ones that said the air volume was low, hence a carbon clean was needed, not me (I had no idea what it was, but did suspect carbon because of what I read).
6. When asked what was causing the pinging, I was told two things, either valves not seating correctly (carbon) or carbon falling into the chamber . Either way the pinging was gone after the carbon was clean

Now here is something interesting for everyone. I've had random pinging come back, and had told Audi about this. After looking at the vavles on Wednesday, you can see a chuck of carbon that has come off (you can see a match head size bit where you can see the shiny valve underneth). So, could that cause pinging? Could it also cause piston damage? Either way, it's not good.

Oh, I was also told that Audi are aware of the carbon problems on the 3.2 V6 but didn't think the RS4 would suffer the same problems. This points to at least a known problem, even if on another model. But again, I'm repeating myself.

[Cornishmoocher]

J had trouble sleeping last night.... and thought I'd have a look on the RS4 board as it was quiet in RS6 land...... I stumbled across this thread and WHOA how very entertaining. Its had everything going on!

I though us Rs6ers had issues, but it does seem that this carbon problem (or not- depending on which side of the VEE you sit) is a worry.

Whoever turns out to be right, I hope that these issues do not detract from enjoyment of your cars.

Arthur.... If you don't work for Audi, I am SURE the phone call wont be long in coming!