Intake Spacers, worth it or not?

[ArthurPE]

I can tell you are afflicted too

people think you learn the calculus, etc., to use it in everyday work...you learn it to UNDERSTAND the physics behind the equations
so you can think in physical terms...understand the basics and derive the particular understanding required for a given situation rather than memorize
just like you need to learn to read to comprehend history for example, you need math to comprehend fields, networks, thermo, etc.
it's a means to the end, not the end

WTF

Don't panic dear, it's only maths

"Real" engineers, like Arthur PE, combine a mathematical understanding with practical knowledge.

If you want an emotive debate on who is and isn't an engineer the Institution of Engineering & Technology has an ongoing letter debate about whether Sir James Dyson is an engineer or just an entrepreneur.

[Rick_RS4]

ArthurPE

are you saying in you previous post that the inlet mani maybe colder but due to the spacers its makeing a larger volume of air inside that would be hotter than a smaller volume without?

or are you tying to make us look dumb ha ha, i think people including me like things that will bolt on and appear to make their car faster/better without doing the math, milltec for example

[ArthurPE]

ArthurPE

are you saying in you previous post that the inlet mani maybe colder but due to the spacers its makeing a larger volume of air inside that would be hotter than a smaller volume without?

or are you tying to make us look dumb ha ha, i think people including me like things that will bolt on and appear to make their car faster/better without doing the math, milltec for example

I'm saying it is negligible either way
contact time is so low and only the surfaces conduct and air is a poor conductor...it doesn't heat up much isolated or not

under certain conditions the isolated manifold may impart more heat to the air than the un-isolated, even though it may be a bit cooler
this is because the delta temp between it and the compartment air is less so higher % may conduct to the airstream...

either way, imo, moot

[Timster]

WTF

Don't panic dear, it's only maths

"Real" engineers, like Arthur PE, combine a mathematical understanding with practical knowledge.

If you want an emotive debate on who is and isn't an engineer the Institution of Engineering & Technology has an ongoing letter debate about whether Sir James Dyson is an engineer or just an entrepreneur.

Actually Dave, I love reading Arthurs' posts (and trying to get my head around them).
My youth and training were spent in electronics. Often during the slack periods of the 1980's the other juniors and myself would waste loads of company money, racing to see who could construct projects the quickest. (but still within the criteria that "they should work as agreed).
There was one guy that had done a pure degree in electronic design (very intelligent, but lost the race every single time as he would always start with truth tables/boolean algebra etc).
The second was ex RAF and had done an HND (which imho is a far far better qualification.... as slightly less of the course is spent getting wasted and listening to Iron Maiden)... but more importantly combined plenty of practical application. (unlike the degree courses of the time).
Then there was me.... a humble lad from the sticks, a few BTEC's and other Units under my belt... who would generally either win or draw. My approach has always been to NOT re-invent the wheel but gladly adopt any of the hard work others had done before me.
Good example: (Which I won by about a week): To construct a multi-input drum synthesiser.... for no better reason than it was the 80's and we all love that syndrum sound
I just searched all the chip manufactures catalogues until I found the right chips to bolt together. Put the necessary ancillary stuff around the edges... and bingo.
It worked brilliantly for years.

In the end they all started to adopt my philosophy !
Sorry, guess I went off at a bit of a tangent, there.

Maybe I'm trying to say that in addressing the issues of Phenolic Spacers... personally I'd just look at the key findings of those in the know.... go for the most likely product that appears to work.... then tweak it in my garage.
I wouldn't get the white-board out and start from scratch... I wouldn't know where to start. (plus I've got a short attention span).

As you were gents.....

[adsgreen]

My only problem with the lack of contact time argument is what happens with a charge cooler...
My other car is supercharged with an air charge cooler. The volume and mass flow of air is similar but the temps before and after the cooler are over 20c-30c.

[sonny]

You could say the same about porting the IM and removing the tumble flaps, as there will be more volume of air. I dont think it matters to be fair. But I I see where your coming from.

[gottanS]

My 1p's worth...

The plastic inlet spacers will slow the rate of heat transfer into the manifold and in still air the manifold will still attain the same temperature as the engine but more slowly due to the reduced rate of heat transfer. When the vehicle is moving the manifold will lose heat that is replaced more slowly so may see a reduction in absolute temperature. As to what performance difference this would make is probably beyond butt dyno sensitivity...

[ArthurPE]

My only problem with the lack of contact time argument is what happens with a charge cooler...
My other car is supercharged with an air charge cooler. The volume and mass flow of air is similar but the temps before and after the cooler are over 20c-30c.

and that is a multi-path, finned radiator in the air stream...
probably a psi or 2 of pressure drop
the multi-paths offer more area so the air is moving slower, more contact time