Pictures of my inlet ports....

[rsierra]

Let me explain further. Based on my experience remapping Mitsu Evo, Subaru, and GM LSx ECU’s there are at least two ignition maps. They are typically known as low detonation and high detonation ignition maps. When the knock sensor triggers a certain threshold the ECU reverts to the high det map. The high det map has much lower timing values that will minimize knock. The primary purpose of the high det map is to allow the engine to run safely on poor quality or low octane fuel without damaging the engine. The ECU will not throw a code when switching between maps. I have never seen an ECU throw a code for detonation. I’ve seen engines with severe mechanical engine noise never throw a code. Conversely, if the ECU sees low knock sensor voltage it will advance timing and will switch back to the low det map if need be.

It’s my understanding from reliable sources that the RS4 has multiple ignition maps as well. Based on data from datalogging I have seen significant timing reduction, and my car has never thrown a code.

In typical ArthurPE fashion he spews his bullshit opinion/theory and claims it to be fact with absolutely no factual data to back his opinions. He’s never appeared to have done any datalogging, never looked at or modified any OBDII engine management code, and yet he’s an expert at it.

[S2tuner]

rsierra: the RS4 ECUs do not have timing maps for high and low detonation, but regardless, they have maps for various engine operating modes, cams advanced, cams retarded and so on. Timing gets pulled back based on knock sensor calculated and corrected voltage per cylinder, after the raw knock sensor signal has been filtered so the ECUs know when combustion occurs on every cylinder. Knock sensor "signal too high" codes do exist and I have already seen engines with such codes, but in the 3 cases I have seen those codes, all 3 engines had grenaned their bottom ends, which of course accounted for excessive "noise" measured by the knock sensors. Those 3 engines were 1.8Ts.

A little bit later, I'll try to explain more clearly why a restriction in flow makes an ECU <beep> timing and run less timing than a car that has no restriction in flow on the intake side. ArthurPE will as usual say that timing makes no difference to power and can even reduce power in some cases, and I'm sure that in a few months I'll see posts of him saying you don't really need ignition in order to get combustion, or even fuel for that matter, as combustion occurs regardless of carbon deposits or not.

[pippyrips]

Slightly off topic but I struggle to see what Sims has done wrong since he joined the forum. Ironically the things he has been accused of apply just as much to the people having a go at him.

This is an open forum where people are allowed to question, ask and answer whatever they like. From what I can see Sims is genuinely interested in understanding the cause and effects of carbon/oil build up in the RS4 and yet, each time he posts on the subject he gets shot down. IMHO there are other members here than are far more patronising & annoying than Sims…

[^Qwerty^]

^^

+1

[PetrolDave]

I haven't been on this Forum for about a week due to work commitments, and I have to say I'm deeply disappointed that we're still having these childish slanging matches. In many recent cases anyone trained in people management skills can see that there is an element of goading or baiting taking place - I'm not going to name names, you know who you are...

I'm all for questioning, I ask a LOT of dumb questions myself, but sometimes the answers are either not what you wanted to hear or involve a level of understanding and/or detail that cannot be expected of a layman. In either of those cases I've found that a period of silence while investigating and learning before asking a knowledgeable follow-up question is better than simply making a quick response.

[ArthurPE]

I've 'looked' at (actually downloaded and analyzed) files from dozens of ECU's, doesn't matter what they are from, you are missing the entire point...they are all the same, engines operate all the same with minor variations in control strategy...dosn't matter,: engine, chiller, wind turbine...

so now I'm a fool?
and you 'give up' on me?
it's a good thing you have absolutely nothing to do with the course of my life isn't it? lol

you were wrong, there is a 9.1.1...I showed you, you don't need to get your panites in a bunch sugar britches, lighten up

Art, you've never looked at one SINGLE file ever coming from a B7 RS4 so why keep this ridiculous game going? I don't take you for an idiot. I give up on you, I have already wasted wayyyy too much time trying to make you THINK in a different way but you know better. Sorry, but no one should argue with fools.

[ArthurPE]

I'm not by a long shot the only one who has noticed the degradation of content since 'before' and 'after' sims...

I didn't leave, I took a break, perhaps you should consider such
re: O2, look at your post count vs time on board, vs. mine

why don't we just let the members decide the value of our posts?
what's sad is you really care about what impression people form of you from the INTERNET! that is downright pathetic...

honestly, the greater good would be served by your departure...that's a given
it still is in doubt about mine;)

Arthur, you do yourself no favours by blaming me when you don't want to provide relevant information/answers. Next you will be blaming me for the Ash cloud & the oil spill.

You left the forum once before for the same reason but could not do without this oxygen despite your protestations about how busy you are etc etc. I also find it odd you post so much personal data on this forum, and I wonder why.... You accuse people of lying and much more, but cannot handle it when people doubt & question you. And let's be truthful, there are many other forums you are not welcome on although you have good engineering experience. That's sad.

The reality is that this forum had a positive atmosphere before either of us got here. And before the carbon got deeply embedded.

So how about we make a deal for the greater good of the forum - both of us stop posting on this forum.

Win-win.

[ArthurPE]

and we hear from the guy who lost 70HP due to deposits...
the ONLY content you post anywhere is carbon HP loss
the same tripe in numerous forums, that's it, NEVER any positive contribution...

just a big 'look how I flounder and screwed my car up, Audi is evil, the end is nigh', lol

again all the internet posturing in the world won't fix your car (well, perhaps not yours, you've pretty much destroyed the engine with piston pitting, have you had a compression/leakdown test(s) run, and the worse the pitting, the more 'pinging' due to hot edges and trapped exhaust particles )

I'm not sure why such weight is placed on what I say, ie, deposits do not cost power and Audi rated HP is valid?
if I am so 'wrong' won't that be obvious? or are the members so stupid and I'm some sort of automotive svenghali and will brainwash them into complacency? why do you think everyone who doesn't agree with you is a moron, wrong and a lessor human being?

why are the attacks so viscious against any one who disagrees about deposits and rating? not only me, but anyone who shares the same position? perhaps that is why you don't see more people saying it isn't an issue? they don't want the hyena's ripping into their flesh over something that doesn't really matter...

I always wondered why who people who agree with me prefer to PM, rather than post....they want to avoid the hassle of dealing with the likes of sims and playwitmaboytoy

It's a shame, I read a few forums, and the very good threads turn to mush when Arthur comes on. It's as if he wants the "Arthur Buildup" to cloud the real issue, maybe with the hope the mods with close all the carbon threads??

I think people come on here to share their experiances and ask questions. All I read from Arthur is Carbon is not a problem and do a 3000-8000 rpm run. Nothing is ever offered with respect to helping people. All the forums are the same as soon as he posts.

I can't understand why he doesn't help those that have experianced the problem? Maybe this video expains it: http://www.inspiredobjective.com/Audi

Anyway, back on topic, my car ran 9-13 degrees timing with carbon and never set a fault code. It's now runing about 19-22 (when 25C) and still no codes. It should be 30 degrees timing (as per the above attachment, and from another forum). It'll be in to Audi next week to check this out (yes, they have agreed there is a problem)

[PetrolDave]

I always wondered why who people who agree with me prefer to PM, rather than post....

Sounds like we really do have an issue with people feeling intimidated and unwilling to speak up in public.

[ArthurPE]

Sounds like we really do have an issue with people feeling intimidated and unwilling to speak up in public.

just checked my PM's, at least 12 people who 'thanked me' or offered positive comments on my position...

and most notable, they usually don't post in 'these threads', but they read them

and I don't blame them, in fact, respect them for avoiding this crap...
I must be a glutton for punishment, or the outspoken @$$hole beacon of hope for all the down trodden RS4 owners who actually LIKE their car, lol

[HYFR]

Arthur, I get where your coming from...

Im more than happy with the performance of my RS 4, and having many S/RS's before, I dont feel this model has a performance issue...god, you should try driving the 1.6TDI Golf im slumming it in at the mo !

I buy the fact that cleaning the ports will give you extra power, but so does a decent service doesnt it ! but it wont last, and the engine will return to pre-engineered operation conditions....my faith is in Audi and the fact that this free revving 4.2 V8 is a barnstormer of an engine !

[SR71]

The point of the debate is to learn something new (for instance today I learn that RS4 ECM's do not use fuzzy logic and vary their CF's), and potentially, like the DRC issue, get it addressed on behalf of the wider community if need be.

Unless you're RussianM3dude (who I actually thought was quite funny and certainly not offensive in his contributions), this site is pretty much self-censoring.

If you're not interested in contributing, fine.

If you're interested in contributing, fine.

What ain't fine is trying to throttle the debate. The way I see it, only the moderator retains that right.

But I'm just staggered that there are still people who can think that an engine that does this to itself within the space of 2-3 years(?) is OK even if you believe it doesn't affect performance or longevity.

At what point are owners going to say there IS a problem, if what you see in the image isn't?

And all this hors***t about "Audi lying" and "not enjoying your car...."

What is that all about?

I've just watched the Audi R8 Megafactories documentary. Even my wife was amazed at the manufacturing process involved in turning sheet aluminium into the final product. It is impressive.

Most of us think/thought the car was great even if I have been doing sub 4 sec 0-60's all afternoon in a GTR.

Audi can do better than spit out DI equipped cars which do this to themselves.

After all, I'm sure someone said:

"Ain't rocket science."

[2manytoys]

and we hear from the guy who lost 70HP due to deposits...

263whp was mainly due to timing, you know that! You can see it in the dyno graph, it's flat from 6000rpm. It's like an electronic limiter. In another post somewhere you say Audi pay you $300,000 a year, and another say you are a DI Engineer. I get it, your job is at risk if you say the wrong thing, so just don't say anything at all instead of trying to mislead people.

These comments from you are what I'm talking about, you don't offer anything except math formulas. If you were a real engineer you'd do some real life testing, or go meet up with another guy who has an RS4 with a problem and try to help him. Gee, in my buiness I go to customer sites all the time to find out why something isn't working like the "back of the box" says it should.

you've pretty much destroyed the engine with piston pitting, have you had a compression/leakdown test(s) run, and the worse the pitting, the more 'pinging' due to hot edges and trapped exhaust particles

Yet, this from another forum:

I see no real piston damage
what I do see is some minor pitting due to detonation, most likely caused by pre-ingnition from lean mixture...my guess

So what is it?

PS: Yes, Arthur, people send me PM's too, probably because I've posted up pictures and information that can actually help people. So what?

[ArthurPE]

263whp was mainly due to timing, you know that! You can see it in the dyno graph, it's flat from 6000rpm. It's like an electronic limiter. In another post somewhere you say Audi pay you $300,000 a year, and another say you are a DI Engineer. I get it, your job is at risk if you say the wrong thing, so just don't say anything at all instead of trying to mislead people.

These comments from you are what I'm talking about, you don't offer anything except math formulas. If you were a real engineer you'd do some real life testing, or go meet up with another guy who has an RS4 with a problem and try to help him. Gee, in my buiness I go to customer sites all the time to find out why something isn't working like the "back of the box" says it should.

So what is it?

PS: Yes, Arthur, people send me PM's too, probably because I've posted up pictures and information that can actually help people. So what?

260 HP down from 330 due to timing? from deposits?
OK

my job is secure, I own the firm...I'm the president also...
don't cry for me Argentina

the state, my university, my clients and all the agencies I deal with consider me a 'real engineer'???
guess it's better they do, any you don't, since it's from them that I derive my income, and from you I derive humor, thanks, the humor is worth more than $$$, lol...

I started out as a field engineer, many years in the oil fields of Alaska servicing anything from process controls to engines...

I was just trying to soften the blow, seriously have a compression & leakdown test performed...the pits will increase the probability of ping/detonation, they will have hot spots on their edges and capature particulates....

how will that help people?

[ArthurPE]

ALL DI engines have deposits, including diesels for the last 100 years...
and it doesn't affect performance more than a % or two...in ANY of them...
it can't possibly affect timing...how? what is the mechanism that would cause 'ping', detonation, etc.???
and if it does, continuously, why no codes?

if Audi rates the car at 414, and it makes 370, like some are saying, 'lying' is a polite way of putting it, it's actually criminal (and civil) fraud...

Audi 'spits' out cars that do 'that', so does BMW, Porsche, Nissan, Ferrari, et al...they ALL do it...it's a natural consequence of the design...but it's a moot point since it does not affect performance...