Bogging down?

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The torque limiter is a red herring - it really really has such a tiny effect on the car other that I would defy anybody to notice it.
Anyway - this is purely rpm based (with the actual throttle limiting dependant on iat temp)

The effect above is traction control but not all traction control will trip the esp light.
What I've found is that if the throttle is backed off then no light. If brakes start getting applied then light is on.

[sar]

The torque limiter is a red herring - it really really has such a tiny effect on the car other that I would defy anybody to notice it.
Anyway - this is purely rpm based (with the actual throttle limiting dependant on iat temp)

The effect above is traction control but not all traction control will trip the esp light.
What I've found is that if the throttle is backed off then no light. If brakes start getting applied then light is on.

this, its the traction control causing the bogging.

[R1RS4]

its like if i dont release the clutch and re apply the throttle at the right time she holds back. no wheel spin, its at high speed


I would have this constantly until the clutch hydraulic return pipe was changed, and since there are no signs of it and its full on

[rwilsonrs4]

The torque limiter is a red herring - it really really has such a tiny effect on the car other that I would defy anybody to notice it.
Anyway - this is purely rpm based (with the actual throttle limiting dependant on iat temp)

The effect above is traction control but not all traction control will trip the esp light.
What I've found is that if the throttle is backed off then no light. If brakes start getting applied then light is on.

+1

[Regy53]

well turned traction of today and the gear changed and so on are much etter how they should be

try it with traction of

[MartayMcFly]

What I've found is that if the throttle is backed off then no light. If brakes start getting applied then light is on.

If that's true, it would certainty clear this up. Not sure where the distinction lies between the ESP backing off the throttle and the mapping limiting torque (wouldn't they effectively be the same thing) but one of these is the culprit.

As for the OP's second post, concerning clutch slip, you'd see the revs rise without any increase in speed. Clutch slip is the opposite of bogging down, more like wheel spin (just further up the drive train).

[Ginors4]

Traction off regy. It doesn't do it. Normally noticeable between 2nd and 3rd. Short press on the esp for partial off should do it or long press for completely off.

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What I've found is that if the throttle is backed off then no light. If brakes start getting applied then light is on.

If that's true, it would certainty clear this up. Not sure where the distinction lies between the ESP backing off the throttle and the mapping limiting torque (wouldn't they effectively be the same thing) but one of these is the culprit.
.

In my view its because the torque limiter is actually no such thing. At low revs the throttle doesn't need to be fully open to supply the amount of power you need. Ie 2000 rpm needs 1/4 the air that 8000 rpm needs. So throttle at 100 and 50% wouldn't make any difference - it's not the limiting part. A good example is a household tap - turn on full blast and then start closing it. The water flow is unchanged until you get some point below half.

So I think in order to provide low speed drive ability and consistency the throttle mapping effectively changes. It means it can also take into account intake air temp and adjust accordingly. So hotter temps it opens the throttle a little more to give the same effect.

Just think about the torque going throug b the gearbox in first even with the limiter - it's about 3000 lbft. So its not as if it doing anything to protect or manage torque.

[sakimano]

If the ESP light flickers then it's a traction issue and the car was trying to keep you safe, if no signs on the dash then it's the dreaded torque limiter. Mine does the same flat out in to 2nd (haven't noticed into 3rd but could just be my shifting).

Traction control can kick in without the light

Further what is this "dreaded torque limiter"?

The torque limiter on a stock ecu is present in gears 1,2,3 from 0-5500, and is in fact a throttle limit as mentioned by adsgreen. It won't let the throttle open past 52% in cold conditions where the car makes full power due to adequate o2 density, 72% in warm conditions, and doesn't factor in the hottest heat of summer as the poor density means the car isn't making enough power/torque to meet the threshold for the throttle limit. Where I differ from adsgreen is that it is/is not noticeable. The "5500 rpm kick" that people love is primarily caused by that throttle limit going away at the set rpm. It's more of a pronounced kick on a stock car in cold conditions than it is on a tuned car without the throttle limit.

The OP is describing traction control. It happens to me during the 1-2 at full trot and also on the 2-3. I have had it happen on a 3-4 shift in the wet before. Basically the car is hitting the brakes when you're going full rocket , and it's awful.

OP congrats on making a couple of quick gear changes that brought on traction control. Next time hold it down for 4+ seconds to disengage it and you won't have the issue.

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There's a lot going on around that rpm - throttle limit, cam advance changes, air box flap so whilst a factor it's hard to ay for definite if it is the primary cause of the "kick".

[MartayMcFly]

Traction control can kick in without the light

Further what is this "dreaded torque limiter"?

The torque limiter on a stock ecu is present in gears 1,2,3 from 0-5500, and is in fact a throttle limit as mentioned by adsgreen.

That. I was told it was a torque limiter. You call it a throttle limiter. Same difference. The point was that, at the time, I wasn't aware that the ESP light didn't flicker for every interruption, so it was ECU that was cutting power.

The OP isn't saying anything about the 5500rpm kick, though I suppose if the revs are held above that threshold then there wouldn't be throttle interference from the ECU (unless the ESP also modulates throttle).

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It is different as it is not limiting torque.
To limit torque you need to restrict the airflow sufficiently such that the air demanded is more than the actual air received.
From looking at the various graphs and logs the torque output is pretty much bang on what you would anticipate with or without limiters. It is limiting the throttle to give consistency but the effect is small especially under 4k rpm.
For example as saks says the broad range is between 52% and 70%. This is a position relative to full open throttle. Without the limiter you have a car that's quite sensitive to throttle inputs at low speed.

[sakimano]

There's a lot going on around that rpm - throttle limit, cam advance changes, air box flap so whilst a factor it's hard to ay for definite if it is the primary cause of the "kick".

I hear you. I've driven and logged a few dozen RS4 (unhealthy vac leak stock, carbony stock, carbon free stock, full exhaust, Tune only, tune + exhaust, tune exhaust + full bolt ons, apr supercharged tvs1320 , jhm stage 1 supercharged, jhm stage 2 supercharged, jhm stage 3 (built motor levels) and my observation is that its most pronounced when driving a stock car with no vac leaks on a cold day.

[mark r]

Yeah mine did this the other day, 2nd to 3rd gear- I plugged Vagcom in and no faults so presume it's the traction kicking in