Col starting

[Martsam]

Hi,
My RS4 has developed an intermittent fault whereby sometimes on a morning pressing the starter button does nothing apart from hearing a click. I can sit there pressing the starter button on and off for ten minutes before it starts. Other times it starts with no problem. Other times I just give up and use my better half's car to go to work. It has been going on since last October. I have had a starter relay renewed (RAC said it was that). That did not work. I have had two diagnostic checks with no problems being the result. Anyone else had this with their Audi and had it sorted?

Regards

Martsam

[MikeFish]

Clutch switch? Common problem. Not sure if it clicks when this fails or if you just mean the button clicks.

[MikeFish]

Does cruise control still work (when you can actually get the car working)?

[Martsam]

Hi Mikefish,
The clicking seems to be from just under the bonnet on the drivers side. Not sure if cruise control works as I never use it. Have you had the clutch switch problem? It's an intermittent fault. How easy is it to change the clutch switch?

Regards

Martsam

[MikeFish]

I've not had it but many others have had intermittant trouble starting due to a faulty clutch switch. It is fairly easy to change. You have to be careful with how you handle it as you fit it, as I seem t orecall a few peple pressing it in before fitting and breaking it or something like that. Do a search for changing clutch switch and I'm sure you'll find loads of info. I think there are 2 switches (or am i thinking about the brake switch now?).

Anyhoo, start her up and try the cruise control. If the cruise control doesn't work or disenages then you definitely have a dodgy switch. Affects the smoothness of gear changes too.

[nij]

Hi Mikefish,
The clicking seems to be from just under the bonnet on the drivers side. Not sure if cruise control works as I never use it. Have you had the clutch switch problem? It's an intermittent fault. How easy is it to change the clutch switch?

Regards

Martsam

If there's clicking when you press the starter button, then it's not the clutch switch. I think someone else had the same problem on here and if I remember correctly, it was the starter motor.

[nij]

Found it, http://forum.rs246.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... rt+starter

As mentioned, it could just be a flat battery due to the cold weather, a faulty relay or starter solenoid.

[PetrolDave]

If there's clicking when you press the starter button, then it's not the clutch switch. I think someone else had the same problem on here and if I remember correctly, it was the starter motor.

There are 2 clutch switches - an upper one (that stops cruise working) and a lower one that stops the starter engaging.

But I agree that since there's a click from under the bonnet the clutch switches are OK. Several owners on audizine have reported a similar problem and it's usually meant a new starter motor.

The click is most likely the solenoid engaging which tries to push the pinion onto the flywheel, if that doesn't happen (or the switch that detects it is faulty) then the actual starter motor will not get energised.

[B7RSX]

Starter motor bud.
Had exactly the problem on mine. Use to sit there for 5/10 mins pressing button trying to start it up.
Changed the relays but that still didn't fix it.

New starter motor required. Bought mine for about £250ish they gave some ££ back for old one.

Started first time everytime once changed.

P.s Need to change status now as I've sold it

[Martsam]

Well I replaced the clutch switch and thought it had been cured. Well his morning I sat there for three minutes pressing and then pressing the starter button again and again. Eventually it started but it looks like it was not the clutch switch.

[Iain_S4]

There are 2 clutch switches - an upper one (that stops cruise working) and a lower one that stops the starter engaging.

That's what I thought when I had a similar issues and it would seem to make logical sense. When the breakdown truck turned up the car fired up (typical) but turned it off and it wouldn't start again. Discovered that there was a small sweet spot with the clutch pedal depressed where the car would start.

Picked up both clutch switches from TPS as 2 were listed and intended to return the one I didn't need. Changed out the clutch switch at the bottom of the travel (lower)and no more starting issues although interestingly it would start without depressing the clutch pedal. I never got round to returning the other switch (upper) at the top of the travel but changed it last week after realising that cruise control would not engage (rarely use it).

Anyway after changing out the upper switch the car now needs the clutch pedal depressed. however I now have the EPC light on which seems to related to changing out the switch. Also posted in here

http://forum.rs246.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 41#p668941

[Martsam]

Hi Iain,
I asked about whether I needed two clutch switches at the audi parts department I went to. They said there was only one clutch switch which they sold to me and I replaced. Are you sure there are two switches? Can you give me the part numbers?

[Surrey Sam]

There are 2 clutch switches - an upper one (that stops cruise working) and a lower one that stops the starter engaging.

That's what I thought when I had a similar issues and it would seem to make logical sense. When the breakdown truck turned up the car fired up (typical) but turned it off and it wouldn't start again. Discovered that there was a small sweet spot with the clutch pedal depressed where the car would start.

Picked up both clutch switches from TPS as 2 were listed and intended to return the one I didn't need. Changed out the clutch switch at the bottom of the travel (lower)and no more starting issues although interestingly it would start without depressing the clutch pedal. I never got round to returning the other switch (upper) at the top of the travel but changed it last week after realising that cruise control would not engage (rarely use it).

Anyway after changing out the upper switch the car now needs the clutch pedal depressed. however I now have the EPC light on which seems to related to changing out the switch. Also posted in here

http://forum.rs246.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 41#p668941

Iain, timely thread as yesterday mine wouldn't start

I've not had any of the usual clutch switch failure symptoms - cruise control, starter button all work as they should. Instead the starter motor just kept spinning the engine over until the system timed out. So I fired up VCDS and pulled the fault codes, I had quite a collection but most I attribute to removing the battery from the car for a few days to get a lawn tractor going after winter hibernation and not clearing the memory after being re-fitted.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 079-910-560-BNS1.lbl
Part No SW: 8E1 910 560 HW: 8E1 907 560
Component: 4.2L V8/4V FSI ª0080
Revision: --H13--- Serial number: XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Coding: 010C0003180F0160
Shop #: WSC 00259 210 86008
VCID: E3C5F40A22431906665-80B6

7 Faults Found:
001169 - Secondary Air Injection System: Bank 1
P0491 - 002 - Insufficient Flow - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 75809 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1459 /min
Load: 54.1 %
Speed: 28.0 km/h
Temperature: 18.0°C
Temperature: 11.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
Voltage: 13.208 V

005634 - Power Supply Terminal 30
P1602 - 002 - Voltage too Low - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 0 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Load: 0.0 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: -40.0°C
Temperature: -40.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 0.0 mbar
Voltage: 0.000 V

001672 - ECM Power Relay Load Circuit: (J271)
P0688 - 004 - Open Circuit
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100100
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 3
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 77502 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Load: 0.0 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 17.0°C
Temperature: 25.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
Voltage: 0.000 V

000258 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70)
P0102 - 002 - Signal too Low
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 3
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 77502 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 198 /min
Load: 94.5 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 17.0°C
Temperature: 25.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
Voltage: 0.000 V

005923 - Starter Interlock Signal
P1723 - 002 - Open Circuit
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 79141 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Load: 0.0 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 17.0°C
Temperature: 26.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
Voltage: 0.000 V

005445 - Throttle Valve Controller
P1545 - 008 - Malfunction
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01101000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 79141 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Load: 0.0 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 18.0°C
Temperature: 26.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
Voltage: 12.065 V

008454 - Throttle Valve Actuator Module (J338)
P2106 - 008 - Power Limited due to Malfunction
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01101000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 79141 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Load: 0.0 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 18.0°C
Temperature: 26.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
Voltage: 12.065 V

Readiness: 0000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 8E0-910-517.clb
Part No SW: 8E0 910 517 G HW: 8E0 614 517 BD
Component: ESP8 quattro H06 0150
Revision: 00000000 Serial number: 00000000000000
Coding: 0004533
Shop #: WSC 06335 000 00000
VCID: 2B55DC2A8A1311461E5-807E

2 Faults Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module
004 - No Signal/Communication
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100100
Fault Priority: 1
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 40
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
Hex Value: 0x0080
Hex Value: 0x0722
Hex Value: 0x0013
Hex Value: 0x8594
Hex Value: 0x0001

18265 - Load Signal
P1857 - 000 - Error Message from ECU
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100000
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 3
Reset counter: 40
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
Hex Value: 0x0000
Hex Value: 0x0722
Hex Value: 0x0028
Hex Value: 0x0190
Hex Value: 0x0001

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 11: Engine II Labels: 079-910-560-BNS2.lbl
Part No SW: 8E1 910 560 HW: 8E1 907 560
Component: 4.2L V8/4V FSI ª0080
Revision: --H13--- Serial number: XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Coding: 010C0003180F0160
Shop #: WSC 00259 210 86008
VCID: E3C5F40A22431906665-80B6

2 Faults Found:
005634 - Power Supply Terminal 30
P1602 - 002 - Voltage too Low - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 0 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Load: 0.0 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: -40.0°C
Temperature: -40.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 0.0 mbar
Voltage: 0.000 V

001672 - ECM Power Relay Load Circuit: (J271)
P0688 - 004 - Open Circuit
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100100
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 3
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 77502 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Load: 0.0 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 17.0°C
Temperature: 25.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
Voltage: 0.000 V


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 8E0-920-9xx-8EC.lbl
Part No SW: 8E0 920 981 R HW: 8E0 920 981 R
Component: KOMBI+WFS 4 H14 0040
Revision: 0040 Serial number: 00000000000000
Coding: 0023411
Shop #: WSC 45344 000 1048576
VCID: 3C77EF767C7D86FE87F-5124

1 Fault Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer Labels: 8E0-920-9xx-8EC.lbl
Part No SW: 8E0 920 981 R HW: 8E0 920 981 R
Component: KOMBI+WFS 4 H14 0040
Revision: 0040 Serial number: 00000000000000
Coding: 0023411
Shop #: WSC 45344 000 1048576
VCID: 3C77EF767C7D86FE87F-5124

1 Fault Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent


After that little lot, my thought process was leaning towards immobiliser. So I checked both keys and the valet key; they were all being recognised but I re-coded them to the vehicle to be absolutely sure and that made no difference. It was at this point that the Traction Control light and EPC light now appeared in the dash, the one touch start button also stopped working. I had to now press and hold the start button to get it turning over which it did with the same vigour as before. All quite strange.

I decided to save the fault code log and then clear them all from the memory. VCDS wouldn't allow me to use the clear all function for some reason (my VCDS knowledge is not massive) so had to instead open up each module and clear them individually which worked fine and a re-scan showed them all to be clear. I tried starting the car again and to my surprise it burst into life and the lights disappeared. Turning the car off and trying again, this time not holding the button and the one touch start worked fine. So all was back to normal again and confirmed by another VCDS scan showing no fault codes - on this occasion I decide to monitor the battery voltage upon start up and it dropped into the low 9's. I took the car for a long drive and then parked it up overnight, this morning I went out and the car started as normal.

This all leaves me a little unsure as to what the exact fault could have been but I'm thinking that the battery is to blame - it's an original item that is now 7 years old now, the car is not regularly used either so the battery is probably past its best. I'll monitor how things go but thought I'd report on here my experience to see if that can help anyone.

[rallyewill]

Battery is very likely

[Iain_S4]

Hi Iain,
I asked about whether I needed two clutch switches at the audi parts department I went to. They said there was only one clutch switch which they sold to me and I replaced. Are you sure there are two switches? Can you give me the part numbers?

Old Parts - removed
Upper - 8E0 927 189B
Lower - ?J0 927 189F (suspect first character missing/rubbed off?)

Replacement Parts - From TPS checked against chassis number
Upper - 7H0 927 189
Lower - 6Q0 927 189

Mellis Audi parts
Given the issues I had, I searched online to try and checked the part numbers and used the following website
http://www.jimellisaudiparts.com/showAs ... lYear=2007
Upper - 6Q0 927 189
Lower - 6Q0 927 189
This is American and for LHD but i figured pats would be the same. However, although it matched one switch, they are both different designs so something didn't add up. I had originally fitted only the lower switch (clutch depressed) to cure the starting issue and only recently fitted the second (Upper -7H0 927 189) when I was getting a clutch switch fault code and realised the cruise control would not work. Its the latter change which seems to have thrown up the EPC fault.

Partscats.info
A few days ago Youngben posted up a link to an alternative parts database which gave a different and seemingly more correct part numbers than the link above.
http://www.partscats.info/audi/en/?i=ca ... 1234567890

Upper - 8E0 927 189B
Lower - 1J0 927 189F

From the above information it would suggest that the switches supplied by TPS were both wrong.