Supercharger

[cz.Garry]

Hi guys,
beeing disappointed with power/weight ratio of my RS4 i decided to boost power with supercharger (intercooled 0.5-0.7 bar) . Anyone here has experience with it? I wanted PES (quite OK price) but I read some terrible experience with this firm and I cannot afford buy $hit. MTM is out of my budget. APR doesn't have final version or do they?

Benefits
+power boost.
+quite rare car

Cons
-problem with selling (not original car)
-price
-reliability

Any idea? Which brand? Price? Risks?

Im curious: Why is everyone from PES banned on several forums? Are they evil boys?

BR

Garry

[Mr V10]

I've heard nothing but bad things about PES. A guy from the A8/S8 forum is fitting a Jaguar supercharger to his 4.3 V8 S8 though. Just waiting for him to unveil the details soon!

[cz.Garry]

I've heard nothing but bad things about PES. A guy from the A8/S8 forum is fitting a Jaguar supercharger to his 4.3 V8 S8 though. Just waiting for him to unveil the details soon!

Hi Amar, thank you for post.

Read complete thread if you like

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthrea ... deleted...

[Shoppinit]

That's a really interesting thread. It's by no means black and white and I'm left thinking that PES aren't really the bad guys in this story.

[ArthurPE]

the PES M90 sc is too small for this engine...it runs on the high end of the curve, low efficiency...
wait a bit for the APR kit, I've put the curves into an excel spreadsheet and the eff are much better:
PES M90 vs APR R1320
overall rpm range avg 52% vs 63%, 20%+ more efficient, meaning less heat and less parasitic loss
at 7000 42% vs 50%, 20%
at 5000 52% vs 67% almost 30% morre efficient!
at 3000 58% vs 70% 20%

I never mod, but this has got my interest

[NIKKIrsSIXX]

Blimey I think you need A level 'Math' to understand what all those percentages mean.

[ArthurPE]

Blimey I think you need A level 'Math' to understand what all those percentages mean.

what they mean, let's use the avg of 30% eff delta at 5000 rpm, 52% vs 67%
assume a sc makes a theroretical 140 HP worth of extra air/power
~5 psi of boost (5/14.7 x 414 ~ 140 HP)

at 52% eff 72 HP gets to the wheels
the rest, 68 HP, is lost due to heat of compression (maybe 20 HP) and power to drive the SC itself ~48HP...

for the 67%, 94 HP gets to the wheels
the balance, 46 HP, heat of compression (maybe 15 HP) and power to drive the SC ~30HP...

what this means?
94/72 ~ 30% or 22 more HP to the ground and 5 HP (3.7 KW) less heat the intercooler has to deal with...

these are 'round' numbers, but you get the idea...

[Shoppinit]

I understand the maths. I know nothing about the specifics of superchargers, though, so I'll take your word for it, Arthur.

I was more interested by the flaming of PES that was going on, and the rather dignified response of PES. I thought they hold their own quite well.

[cz.Garry]

Arthur: Do you know how much will APR kit cost? Isn't better save money and buy better car (GTR? )

BR

Garry

[Shoppinit]

Did you mean better or faster?

[cz.Garry]

Did you mean better or faster?

Only thing Im interested in is speed and Im afraid IMHO GTR is better. But I would like to know opinions of others. I heard that GTR is too perfect to enjoy driving.

Garry

[ArthurPE]

Arthur: Do you know how much will APR kit cost? Isn't better save money and buy better car (GTR? )

BR
Garry

that's a question only you can answer
price, only APR can answer, lol

I myself am happy with the RS4, the overall package, the build quality, the usable nature of the power...plus it looks good...

+80-100HP and -100 lbs wouldn't hurt...

but honestly, the biggest issue imho is not power (rating, deposits, etc.), it's balance...60/40 plus 4000 lbs is pretty unwieldy...
2400/1600, 50% more on the front!
it's my only real criticism of the car, but the 40/60 awd set-up does a great job of mitigating it...
I'm sure this is accented coming from M3's, perfect balance, and my 944 Turbo, actually a bit more on the rear...

[cz.Garry]

Im in love with my rs. Seats are great (having sporter one), steering wheel has some feed back, traction is perfect, sound of engine is good (i can imagine better).

BUT...
take a ride in civil remapped 335i and feeling of accelaration is much better (i know its not NA).

I do have 2 options:

1st - invest another $15k or $20k and take risk that it won't working (i know 350z twin turbo which after 1 year of servising still not working as promised by ...cant rememaber name of company (i think they are from australia but it doesnt matter)

2nd - try another car -> GTR personaly i dont like interior and exterior but the way which this car goes fast on road is incredible. Performance/price you won't find better rate.

Remapping ECUs or milltek full system or smt doens't make sense (+10 HP on 400 HP car isn't performace progres)

BR

Garry

that's a question only you can answer
price, only APR can answer, lol

I myself am happy with the RS4, the overall package, the build quality, the usable nature of the power...plus it looks good...

+80-100HP and -100 lbs wouldn't hurt...

but honestly, the biggest issue imho is not power (rating, deposits, etc.), it's balance...60/40 plus 4000 lbs is pretty unwieldy...
2400/1600, 50% more on the front!
it's my only real criticism of the car, but the 40/60 awd set-up does a great job of mitigating it...
I'm sure this is accented coming from M3's, perfect balance, and my 944 Turbo, actually a bit more on the rear...

[P_G]

Couple of alternative options to a supercharger? There is a twin turbo system that caldy was talking about where the turbos site next to the exhaust back boxes; can't remember what the company name is but once he's off the golf course I'm sure he'll tell you.

Also, for the money involved with a supercharger conversion, why not go after the primary principle and increase the power to weight ratio by adjusting the latter. CF, lighter wheel, lighter transmission / exhaust, interior etc etc. For that sort of money you could do a lot to improve th feel and performance of your car.

[cz.Garry]

Couple of alternative options to a supercharger? There is a twin turbo system that caldy was talking about where the turbos site next to the exhaust back boxes; can't remember what the company name is but once he's off the golf course I'm sure he'll tell you.

Also, for the money involved with a supercharger conversion, why not go after the primary principle and increase the power to weight ratio by adjusting the latter. CF, lighter wheel, lighter transmission / exhaust, interior etc etc. For that sort of money you could do a lot to improve th feel and performance of your car.

This will cost a lot of money and I'm afraid I won't go 0-200 -3.5s or smt. (how many kgs shall you save? 50, 60, 100? Still not enough!)

I don't understand how can audi 4seris weights 1723 kgs (mine)

Garry