ESP ?

[Andiroo]

I leave ESP on for all public roads and it has saved my bacon several times - especially in the wet.

If I'm on a track I don't know very well (or at all) again I leave ESP on to find out where the grip levels are. This is a good learning curve and you dont come off. Then when confidence builds at these points of the circuit you take ESP off to give the better driving experience, 4 wheel drifts etc.

At circuits I know very well ESP is off all the way as I know what to expect - even in the wet.

IMHO the only downside to ESP on a modded RS4 is the "bogging down" in slow corners, but hey, there is no reason why you can't do 20% of a lap with ESP off if you don't feel confident.....

Andiroo

[DavidR]

Wet trackdays on a familiar track are the only places when ESP will usually be off on my car. The S4 drifts quite nicely from the rear and showboats nicely with passengers in on oposite lock [img]images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[MushroomMan]

ESP is just a symptom of the nannyish safety-obsessed allergy-ridden neurotic hypochondriac claim blame culture we seem to think is normal nowadays. But I ask you: did Biggles have ESP in his Sopwith when he came out of the sun? Did Campbell say to himself seconds before his fateful moment on Lake Coniston "Ooh Betty, should have fitted a safety ejection seat..." They lived on the edge. but now everything remotely exciting has to be molly-coddled and cotton woolled, strapped down with legal disclaimers and fenced off for our own good, supposedly. I say turn off the ESP, put your foot to the floor and head for the apex everytime. [img]images/graemlins/director.gif[/img]

[runrowsam]

You're probably right that I'm just not used to the system, but I never trust technology to save my ass, especially when there are so many variables that it can't have a clue about, such as a change in surface that's coming up, where the grass verge is, cats eyes REALLY piss it off if it's wet, and so on. Obviously I agree with you on normal roads etc., I'm not a complete tit, but then my preferred strategy is to not drive on or near the limit if I don't know exactly what's going on. I never take it to the ragged edge unless I know exactly where every bump, every strip of new tarmac, every leaf-shedding tree is, and so when I do, having some smartass chip tell me I'm pushing too hard and lift off the power and scuffle about is MOST frustrating. The particular car I'm thinking of was a modded RS4, which probably seriously enhances the annoyance effect! Quattro GmbH suspension was fitted too, probably another assisting factor!!! Incidentally, would ESP hold a car straight having a blowout at 70mph? I wouldn't have thought so but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Rock on
Sam [img]images/graemlins/thumbs.gif[/img]

[DavidR]

ESP is just a symptom of the nannyish safety-obsessed allergy-ridden neurotic hypochondriac claim blame culture we seem to think is normal nowadays. But I ask you: did Biggles have ESP in his Sopwith when he came out of the sun? Did Campbell say to himself seconds before his fateful moment on Lake Coniston "Ooh Betty, should have fitted a safety ejection seat..." They lived on the edge. but now everything remotely exciting has to be molly-coddled and cotton woolled, strapped down with legal disclaimers and fenced off for our own good, supposedly. I say turn off the ESP, put your foot to the floor and head for the apex everytime. [img]images/graemlins/director.gif[/img]

[img]images/graemlins/roflmao.gif[/img]

Your post is funny, but only because it is myopic, immature and completely irrelevent. I trust your post is a considered attempt to be inflammatory, but should that really be your view, I hope that the apex you dive for is not also occupied by a family of 4 in their people carrier or an 18 wheeler...

[runrowsam]

It sounds ridiculous, but to a point I agree with what you're saying there! I'm as terrified as the next bloke of harming anyone unless they're Labour MP's, but it's true that nowadays you can't do ANYTHING unless it's perfectly safe. Where's the fun? I've flown with the RAF and they're so bothered about safety and documentation that you never get any real flying done. It's like political correctness - it just goes too far sometimes. I'm just not keen on having someone sat there telling me "oooh you can't do that, you might hurt yourself", even with flying! When I first flew a jet a health and safety officer came up and informed me that if I were to crash it, I might hurt myself, so I should eject if there's no chance of saving the plane. Well thank you my good man, I hadn't thought of that one![img]images/graemlins/062802beat_prv.gif[/img]

Rock on
Sam [img]images/graemlins/thumbs.gif[/img]

[MushroomMan]

Fine - you advocate keeping it on permanently - that's your choice but your tone (slightly puritanical verging on calvinistic IMH) suggests that everyone else MUST DO THE SAME AS YOU.

Answer this. Why have the option to switch it off if it can't be used? Also, why drive a car with power if you're afraid of testing its limits? Of course there may be the occasion when things go wrong, always a risk, but if I lived my life worrying that the Walton Family might be coming round every hairpin, I'd never go above 4000 rpm or break the speed limit, and can you imagine how completely tedious that would be?

[DavidR]

I am neither omnipotent nor particluarly moral when it comes to the laws of the road. Therefore my point is that If I am to push the limits of my car and myself, I should at least be sensible enough to do it approriately and use safety equipment available to help defend the safety of fellow road users.

Do you drive with you seatbelt off, because you can? Do you unplug the ABS fuse, because you can and you have heard that a skilled driver can stop a car quicker that way?

It is a question of opinion, I guess thats the point of the forum. I just don't value the opinion of those who show little regard for the welfare of others and deliberately incite people to behave recklessly.

[MushroomMan]

Do you drive with you seatbelt off, because you can? Do you unplug the ABS fuse, because you can and you have heard that a skilled driver can stop a car quicker that way?

This is a totally falacious argument. The seatbeat is compulsory and should be used for all journeys. It's also the law as well as being best practice. And the ABS comparison is frankly absurd. You might as well advocate letting down the tyres becuase you can.

The difference is that ESP is a button on the dash specifically designed to offer drivers a choice - on or off. I think it is a little extreme to suggest that everyone who prefers not to use ESP is a wreckless law flaunter intent on tarmac carnage. Similarly your presumption that because I decline to mimic your safety obsessed Holier-Than-Thou highway code, I am somehow unworthy or immature.

I say to you John Knox, come down from your Presbyterian Highland pulpit and join in with the diverse and complex thoroughfare of souls...

Oh lord I am not worthy... [img]images/graemlins/bowdown.gif[/img]

[fade2grey]

button on the dash.. so more like aicon then... on or off.. wind the windows as an alternative [img]images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

A

[DavidR]

Difficult to know how to respond to somebody who makes a blatantly inflammatory post then gets offended when it is challenged. I bet Campbell did wish he had an ejector seat, then he may not have died. [img]images/graemlins/clap.gif[/img]

[fade2grey]

To be fair, I've got to agree with both of you on a few points. I would prefer to turn it off unless I was just trying to get from point to point with no drama - eg daily driving. But the option of turning it off is good, too much is too safe these days. There is a time & a place but what's the world going to be like if we can't extend our right foot & have some fun? [img]images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

A

[MushroomMan]

Difficult to know how to respond to somebody who makes a blatantly inflammatory post then gets offended when it is challenged. I bet Campbell did wish he had an ejector seat, then he may not have died. [img]images/graemlins/clap.gif[/img]

I wasn't offended David. I just think you need to ask Nanny to loosen your reins once in awhile. I would also suggest colonic irrigation therapy but I tried it recently and it left an awful mess.

[Andiroo]

I know calvanistic is to do with wearing smart expensive boxer shorts, and falacious is what lesbians do but what does puritanical and omnipotent mean?

Andiroo

[DavidR]

I would also suggest colonic irrigation therapy but I tried it recently and it left an awful mess.

Thats nice to know. I assume you accuse me of being anally retentive. Freuds psychoanalytical theory would suggest that I would be "stingy and obsessionally clean". Nice to see another good demonstration of you knowledge on these matters.

I like your argument as its only susbtance seems to be that I am wrong and you are right. Hows about binning the childish retorts, being objective and educating me on the advantages of no ESP?

P.S. We all know that Freud set back the practice of psychiatry by about 50 years, but that argument really is falacious...