Swapping Porsche 996 for Audi RS6

[GaryC]

Hi folks - my first post on this forum

I currently own a 2003 Porsche 996 Carrera 2, which due to a growing family I really need to swap for something more practical which still has decent performance and is fun to drive. The only options I have come up with so far are the Audi RS6 Avant, or possibly a plain S6 or S4 Avant.

I've never driven an RS6 before, but have a test drive booked of an RS6 for this coming weekend - it will be interesting to see how it compares to the porsche.

In the meantime I have a few questions/concerns, and I would be very grateful if people with more knowledge of these vehicles than me would be able to answer...

First of all, is the RS6 worth the extra money over a basic S6 (which seems to be very rare) or an S4? I reckon an RS6 is about 12-15k more expensive than the latter two for the same age/mileage. How does the tiptronic box in the RS6 compare to, say, a manual S4? (Have to admit I am getting lazier as I get older, and a tiptronic quite appeals nowadays).

The car I am test-driving is the dealers demonstrator, is also for sale, and it seems to fit my spec - avant with a low mileage on a late plate, with nice subtle grey-metallic paintwork. However I am a bit wary about buying an ex-demonstrator, as I expect it's been thrashed from new. What's the running-in procedure for these cars - is it likely to have come to any longterm harm if driven hard from new?

I understand that the sat-nav system was updated from a CD-based one to DVD-based. When did this changeover occur? I drive a fair bit in Europe, and would prefer to avoid the expense and inconvenience of buying and carrying around extra disks.

The dimensions of the RS6 make it quite a bit bigger than my 911 which fits in my garage. It's unlikely to get damaged on my drive in the area that I live in, but at the back of my mind is the thought of an aggravated burglary for the keys if it's just sitting there on the drive visible to all (with small children in the house, it's the last things I want). I'd really be interested in getting a feel for how big a theft target the car is, and whether it would be worth getting it debadged.

I'm probably going to lose a lot of money on the 911 if I trade it in at an Audi main-dealer, as all they'll do is phone around in the trade to get a bottom-line price on the 911. On top of that I'll end up paying top-whack for an RS6 from a main dealer. Does anyone know of any reputable independents or other dealers who perhaps deal with both types of car and may be able to cut me a better deal?

Depreciation? At the moment I intend to keep the car for some time...but then I always say that, and typically keep a car for only 1-2 years. How well will they hold their value? Particularly with the new A6 just come out.

Finally are there any known serious faults with the cars...on a par with say the oil leaks and engine problems on early 996's which meant a number of engine replacements?

Thanks in advance for any help/advice on these points

Gary.

[Prawn]

Hi Gary,
Welcome to RS246.
I personally do not know the RS6 but you mention that a S4 is on the list.
I suggest you look at the RS4 also as it has the space of the S4 and is closer to the
porsche with regards to dynamics.

[peterb]

The difference between the S and RS6 is fairly marked. I would think that, coming from the Porsche, you would be a lot happier with the RS. You would certainly not be the first to make that swap.

Tiptronic obviously isn't quite as snappy as a manual, but it does give you all the control you need. Personally, I just leave mine in drive, and use the paddles to override the automatic choice as required.

Are you sure that that the RS won't fit in your garage? Mine fits in quite comfortably and still allows the tailgate to open (reversed in to garage). I have debadged mine, and it doesn't appear to attract any undue attention. I haven't heard of any RS6s being stolen, but that's not to say that it doesn't happen. Audi UK supplies the RS6 with Tracker fitted as standard. In a situation of aggrevated burglary, it would probably be best to hand over the keys and call Tracker as soon as the car is driven away.

I believe that the RS6 engines are bench-run at Cosworth before being shipped to Germany. Also, the car is test driven for 30 miles before it leaves the factory. Whether this makes it less liable to damage from being used as a demonstrator, I'm not sure. I would prefer to own from new, but one still has doubts as to how it was driven around the docks etc. during delivery.

I believe that the DVD nav was introduced sometime around late spring this year, but others may be able to give a more definitive answer.

Depreciation would have been a lot lower if Audi UK had kept their original stated intention of limiting sales to 500 cars. The situation doesn't look promising at the moment, but I would expect prices to firm up once production ceases (until the next generation RS6 is released?).

I'm not aware of any common failure points on the RS6 - the only problem I've had is with a rear parking sensor failing intermittently in cold weather. This coming winter should allow me to decide whether it has been fixed.

The RS6 is great fun to drive, and I don't think that you'll be too dissappointed.

[peterb]

I suggest you look at the RS4 also as it has the space of the S4.

I thought that there was more space in the back of the S4 (B6) than in the RS4 (B5).

[Kev.S]

I owned an S6 for nearly three years and found it a fantastic car. Part exed it for an RS6 (also an ex-demonstrator) three weeks ago and can only describe it as awesome! You're right about the S6 being rare though, as I didn't see another all the time I owned it.

I love the tiptronic box as I hate riding the clutch in the daily 5-10 mph drag to work in the mornings and the flappy paddles give enough entertainment value when you want to play on country roads. I certainly like them more than the steering wheel buttons I had on the S6.

On the depreciation front buying an ex-demonstrator makes sense. Mine was 6 months old and I saved £12k on the new price as specced. A realistic price for a 53 2004 with c.6000 miles would be around £50k or less. Check the Audi UK used car search as some dealers are pricing their RS6s at VERY optimistic prices. I'd rather not buy one from a non-Audi dealer as the question I'd be asking myself is if an Audi dealer doesn't want it on their forecourt, what's wrong with it?

[GaryC]

Thanks for the advice guys!

To answer your suggestion Prawn on checking out an RS4, to be honest I really want a newer car - preferably no more than a year old with the balance of factory warranty.

Peter - an RS6 may fit in my garage, but only just. It's 85mm wider than the 996, and to get in an out of that comfortably I need to have the window down. I know my wife wouldn't be happy reversing it out, and a scuffed wheel arch is probably almost inevitable.

I've been checking the Audi website and spoken to a few dealers - some of the prices do seem optimistic as you say Kev. Unfortunately I got a call today from the dealer I was going to take my test drive at on Saturday to say they've sold the car. I've phoned some other dealers a bit further afield, and the cars they had advertised have been sold recently too. Maybe the end of line of the model has sparked interest? There's nothing like telling people they can't have something to make them want it

I guess I'll have to keep on looking and chasing the dealers, as in my experience most are notoriously bad at getting in touch, even when you have expressed serious interest in a particular model of car.

[wboard]

On a negative, the rs6 i have was stolen with the keys from it's first owner with the keys. Not sure of the details but i would imagine they broke in to the house to get the keys before smashing the front, bursting the belt and bending four valves. Poor guy must only have had it a few weeks as only 1k on the clock. Never mind! i've nearly got it fixed.

[JamesB]

It depends on how much you want to spend and by the same token, how much depreciation you are able to stomach, but I believe there are still a few pre-registered RS6s in the system - there certainly were a month or so ago. Dealers should be willing to give a discount on those and they remove the ex-demo worries.

The above story is the first I've heard about the RS6 - the RS4 seems to be a much more commonly stolen-to-order car, probably due to its rarity value - but why don't you just leave the car out of the garage when you know your wife is going to drive it. Also, the RS6 is subtle enough IMO that debadging should markedly reduce its thievability profile.

I agree with Peter, coming from the Porsche, the RS6 will seem much less of an anticlimax than the S6. The S4 is possibly a little more nimble when it gets very bendy but the RS6 more than makes up for this in sheer brute power. Plus you get more toys.

I don't know of any major faults. There are a couple of known minor niggles that I have heard of but generally the car is seen as pretty reliable.

And you are likely to take a reasonably sizeable depreciation hit, for the reasons Peter (again) has already listed. Although you could take the optimist's view and say that this is good as it has reduced likelihood of theft.

And you could always try to sell your Porker privately to avoid the problem of PXing a different marque at an Audi dealer.

[ChrisB]

Just to add my £0.02:

On the subject of theft, you might want to consider upgrading the basic tracker to the Horizon. Quite expensive, but very worth it as the GPS coordinate lock is far more accurate than the triangulation lock the non-GPS units provide. The basic unit also needs you to tell Tracker it's gone (not good if it goes on day 2 of your 14 day holiday), the two others tell Tracker, who ask you if you know it's moving.

Ex-demo? Yes, it probably has been given plenty of special loving from delivery mileage. But, as peterb says you just know the dock handlers will love a go in an RS 6 (even one in transport mode) after shuttling 100+ A2 1.4s around all day. If it's got under about 5000 on the clock, it's not losened up enough that a bit of TLC won't still make a difference. Mine was run in as per the book (apart from whatever happened in transport and the dealer), and I always allow it to warm up before going more than half way to redline, and I've had zero engine problems and I never need to top up oil between services (and I drive mine the way quattro GmbH intended). You might be able to tell an abused one by smelling the exhaust from a cold start, there may be the faintest whiff of burnt oil, although if the engine block is really cold I'd expect that anyway.

Faults? On your test drive, get the foot down grinning insanely bit over with and slow down. Listen for suspension creak over level transitions in the road, especially ones you don't hit at 90 degrees on. Drive it in Tip mode and pull gently from as low as the revs will reasonably go without changing down in to 2nd, you should get virtually no slip as the lockup clutch should work from as low as 1200 rpm. Try the same thing in D, a little slip here is normal (programmed in to allow turbo spool before locking the torque converter clutch), but it should go before 3000 rpm and it should feel very direct after that. You might also want to try freewheeling down from about 40mph in Tip mode, feel for any thumps from the torque converter as it downshifts at low revs.

The gearbox in these cars is a potential weak point IMHO, an badly abused one should show some symptoms. I personally prefer to drive as much as possible in Tip mode, as I prefer the direct feel of the locked-up torque converter, but it should also keep the fluid cooler, as it's not being spun through the converter's pump as much.

Finally, if you are keeping it over a lot of miles, consider ignoring Audi's advice that it's "lifetime" transmission fluid. A guy in the US with an A8 changed his and took his old fluid for analysis, and there's a lot of metal and mineral content in there, changing it flushes all that crap out.

[Iain]

what colour is your C2 and do you have an idea of how much you want for it? Has it got PCM?

[peterb]

On the subject of theft, you might want to consider upgrading the basic tracker to the Horizon. Quite expensive, but very worth it as the GPS coordinate lock is far more accurate than the triangulation lock the non-GPS units provide. The basic unit also needs you to tell Tracker it's gone (not good if it goes on day 2 of your 14 day holiday), the two others tell Tracker, who ask you if you know it's moving.

Good advice - but no Tracker will alert if the car has been stolen using the keys!

[GaryC]

Iain,

My 996 is seal gray metallic, manual, 6000 miles, one owner. Doesn't have PCM. Would be looking for somewhere in the upper 40's for a private sale.

Regards,

Gary.

[W8PMC]

Gary,

You kept that quiet you little snake

I'm sure you've heard plenty from me over the past few months on the virtues of RS6 ownership, but all i can say is that you won't look back.

Not sure if you're attending the Other Marques meet in Birmingham (TT-Forum) in October, but you're more than welcome to come out for a spin in a modified RS6 & i can assure you it will take your breath away.

Not many cars on the road with 500BHP+, so it makes for very exciting drives.

[GaryC]

Sorry Paul, a case of mistaken identity I think. There must be two Gary C's with 996's lurking on this or other car forums.

[johneroberts]

Hmmmm sounds a bit fishy
Hehehehehehe
jr