Big intercoolers make no difference to power levels under normal circumstances, and while IAT will be lower this ultimately doesn't matter.
Thus, fitting wagers will not give you more BHP and should not cause a warranty company to complain.
what happened to the wagner group buy?
Re: what happened to the wagner group buy?
Recycling dinosaurs for fun
Re: what happened to the wagner group buy?
I suppose it depends how you define "normal circumstances". If by normal circumstances you mean part throttle, then "under normal circumstances" you can also happily run the car on 95 octane fuel.
Nice screen shot. Are we to infer that you have mastered the ME7.x?
Out of interest, how does a greater than 100% load rating translate into real life?
Nice screen shot. Are we to infer that you have mastered the ME7.x?
Out of interest, how does a greater than 100% load rating translate into real life?
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: what happened to the wagner group buy?
S'ok, found the answer myself.Shoppinit wrote: Out of interest, how does a greater than 100% load rating translate into real life?
It's all a bit beside the point, though. When the engine is working flat out, you want the densest charge possible to get the highest output. Better intercoolers will help you achieve that over stock ones. Especially since, as you showed, the car will pull boost when the IAT gets too high.
Under partial throttle, and partial boost, the better intercoolers don't have any positive effect. Well, duh.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: what happened to the wagner group buy?
Certainly a long way to go before I can say i've mastered the ME7. To be honest, its quite humbling seeing what some of the guys put together and the effort they go through to understand this ECU. The S4 ecu is quite well understood now, with a lot of folk working on definitions but anything i've seen for the RS6 has been just plain wrong.
Having said that, I do have the rom from my own car as well as a plus binary and a few versions of the standard software. Spent a lot of time diffing files, writing some tools, begging for holy grail map definition files and ultimately spending a sh!t load of time in front of excel and hex editors looking to correct map offsets.
Some folk like sudoku though... Some folk like picking their cars ECU to bits
Need to pick up a spare ECU from somewhere and build a bench harness to get any further now really, but thats way down the priority list... I've got a gearbox service do to on the 6 and an engine swap to do in the elise over the next few weeks, as well as fit some non-leaking standard intercoolers
Anyway, back to the intercooler thing. Yes, cold dense air is king, but not because you can get more into a cylinder though... It would be (and is to a degree) perfectly acceptable to just increase the charge air pressure to achieve the same air mass with hot air, but the problem with hot air is its likely to cause knocking/pre-ignition, not the fact its less dense. Once the IAT gets to this point, you've either got to pull timing, add fuel, reduce boost pressure or all of the above. This is the point where you really need new intercoolers.... When the IAT is causing knocks
And yes, it does depend on what you define as normal circumstances... For some that may be doing laps of La Sarthe baking in the 30c french sun, or trying to set a new PB from Frankfurt to Berlin... For me, the grim reality is that the ambient temperatures and rain here in Scotland, do a highly efficient job of removing the heat from my standard coolers at standard power levels
This however may change
Having said that, I do have the rom from my own car as well as a plus binary and a few versions of the standard software. Spent a lot of time diffing files, writing some tools, begging for holy grail map definition files and ultimately spending a sh!t load of time in front of excel and hex editors looking to correct map offsets.
Some folk like sudoku though... Some folk like picking their cars ECU to bits
Need to pick up a spare ECU from somewhere and build a bench harness to get any further now really, but thats way down the priority list... I've got a gearbox service do to on the 6 and an engine swap to do in the elise over the next few weeks, as well as fit some non-leaking standard intercoolers
Anyway, back to the intercooler thing. Yes, cold dense air is king, but not because you can get more into a cylinder though... It would be (and is to a degree) perfectly acceptable to just increase the charge air pressure to achieve the same air mass with hot air, but the problem with hot air is its likely to cause knocking/pre-ignition, not the fact its less dense. Once the IAT gets to this point, you've either got to pull timing, add fuel, reduce boost pressure or all of the above. This is the point where you really need new intercoolers.... When the IAT is causing knocks
And yes, it does depend on what you define as normal circumstances... For some that may be doing laps of La Sarthe baking in the 30c french sun, or trying to set a new PB from Frankfurt to Berlin... For me, the grim reality is that the ambient temperatures and rain here in Scotland, do a highly efficient job of removing the heat from my standard coolers at standard power levels
This however may change
Recycling dinosaurs for fun
Re: what happened to the wagner group buy?
Not for me the whole ECU hacking thing. I like the idea, but I know that I would run out of patience long before getting anywhere. It always amazes me how little info there is out there on the RS6 map. I guess people don't like to share the info.
I wonder why it pulls boost on extremely low IAT?
I wonder why it pulls boost on extremely low IAT?
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: what happened to the wagner group buy?
I'm pretty sure we would have heard about any climate changes that were coming.sweegie wrote: This however may change
D'oh!
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: what happened to the wagner group buy?
Global warming, local warming... I'll take any kind of warming pleaseShoppinit wrote: I'm pretty sure we would have heard about any climate changes that were coming.
D'oh!
Blue skies here today, but still a little brass monkeys....Im thinking this goes beyond the normal temperature / density thing, and likely has to do with fuel atomisation being poor in low air temps. This would result in a lean condition as the fuel wouldn't get burnt efficiently.Shoppinit wrote: I wonder why it pulls boost on extremely low IAT?
Yep, there's little snippets of stuff lying around but compared to the other Audis of similar age, the quality of info in the public domain isn't great. Having said that, the ECU is almost identical to the S4 in general operation, so a lot of the tuning techniques and information available for that is directly portable to the RS6. The real issues are having the time to read all the relevant material, then not only find the relevant map descriptions, but align them to a binary... Because there's no way the map definitions align 100% correctly... They're all offset... And not all by the same amount...Shoppinit wrote: It always amazes me how little info there is out there on the RS6 map. I guess people don't like to share the info.
If folk are interested, I'll happily do a thread on it
Recycling dinosaurs for fun
Re: what happened to the wagner group buy?
Update from Doug, split hoses under the intake manifold, front of car off jobbie..going to submit to warranty company tomorrow, fingers crossed.
I`m not holding out any hope that a split hose is covered so if it isnt, anything else anyone thinks of that can be done whilst the front of the car is off (cambelt done on purchase) then I`m all ears..
FFS audi, you couldnt have designed the car any better could you, 6.5hrs labour for a fricking hose change, hose is probably best part of 30 sheets
If i dont
I`ll 
I`m not holding out any hope that a split hose is covered so if it isnt, anything else anyone thinks of that can be done whilst the front of the car is off (cambelt done on purchase) then I`m all ears..
FFS audi, you couldnt have designed the car any better could you, 6.5hrs labour for a fricking hose change, hose is probably best part of 30 sheets
If i dont
I`ll She may be big and heavy but its whats on the inside that counts.....
Re: what happened to the wagner group buy?
Which hoses are those then? The ones from the turbo?
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: what happened to the wagner group buy?
Its a 30 quid connecting hose that's split and probably the cause of the whooshing
She may be big and heavy but its whats on the inside that counts.....
Re: what happened to the wagner group buy?
I'm confused. Why does the front have to come off?
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: what happened to the wagner group buy?
Shoppinit wrote:I'm confused. Why does the front have to come off?
Its under the manifold..Doug may hopefully be on to clarify but i will ask for more details once the warranty co makes their decision
She may be big and heavy but its whats on the inside that counts.....
Re: what happened to the wagner group buy?
Rule 16.
Doesn't sound like an intercooler pipe then. Maybe the pipes for the DV.
Did you get the thermostat and water pump changed when you had the timing belt done?
Doesn't sound like an intercooler pipe then. Maybe the pipes for the DV.
Did you get the thermostat and water pump changed when you had the timing belt done?
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: what happened to the wagner group buy?
Timing belt completed by fontain pre purchase so will check with them unless Doug can tell by lookingShoppinit wrote:Rule 16.
Doesn't sound like an intercooler pipe then. Maybe the pipes for the DV.
Did you get the thermostat and water pump changed when you had the timing belt done?
She may be big and heavy but its whats on the inside that counts.....
Re: what happened to the wagner group buy?
Shoppinit wrote:Rule 16.
Doesn't sound like an intercooler pipe then. Maybe the pipes for the DV.
Did you get the thermostat and water pump changed when you had the timing belt done?
Something to do with hose to a one way valve and one goes one way to a brake servo and i would lose boost pressure because of it..makes no sense to me but will chat to fontain as the labour to parts ratio for this hose is comical so will actually want to spend more bizarrely then i already have
so that all that labor hasnt just been for a 30 hose.
She may be big and heavy but its whats on the inside that counts.....
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