what happened to the wagner group buy?

[Mr V10]

There's usually a clause for betterment within a non-Audi warranty and it can't just be a blanket argument from the warranty co for use of non-OEM parts due to it invalidating a warranty. You don't even have to fight the finer points, take a non-OEM CAT-back for example, this will only alter the sound. There are certainly some "no-nos" when a car manufacturer tries to say an aftermarket option will kill their warranty, it's clear non-competition.
The betterment clause usually negates any blanket denial on an aftermarket warranty, it's a catch 22. Oddly, they would still have to prove that the item you chose for betterment is detrimental to the workings of any given system, it's a very grey area. I honestly think one of the best defences would be, if something is plug-and-play, does it throw a code in diag once installed, does it push the car beyond the tolerances it's already built for? They can point to their big print or small print all they want but they ARE regulated, it's scare tactics, mostly, the rest is in the customer's mind. People rarely challenge this grey area, especially cash rich time poor customers.

I challenged WD on an engine pull and a gearbox rebuild and got what I wanted (mostly), it was very tough but I got there, including putting an A.C.E converter in, it can be done. I think the trick is to first make the case for replacement and get them to admit it, only then can you say "good, I'll add more on top for betterment". Then stand your ground, be very pushy and learn the rules/laws.

+ bloody 1, exactly how I would do it.

[HYFR]

regardless ... the mighty Audi warranty didnt cover my last C5 Plus intercoolers when the went poop...

[Mr V10]

But the Inchape car care plan at only £630ish a year including roadside one has covered the Doc's intercoolers.

I'm a firm believer that Audi warranty isn't the only way. It's all about Inchape.

[cfcdoc]

There's usually a clause for betterment within a non-Audi warranty and it can't just be a blanket argument from the warranty co for use of non-OEM parts due to it invalidating a warranty. You don't even have to fight the finer points, take a non-OEM CAT-back for example, this will only alter the sound. There are certainly some "no-nos" when a car manufacturer tries to say an aftermarket option will kill their warranty, it's clear non-competition.
The betterment clause usually negates any blanket denial on an aftermarket warranty, it's a catch 22. Oddly, they would still have to prove that the item you chose for betterment is detrimental to the workings of any given system, it's a very grey area. I honestly think one of the best defences would be, if something is plug-and-play, does it throw a code in diag once installed, does it push the car beyond the tolerances it's already built for? They can point to their big print or small print all they want but they ARE regulated, it's scare tactics, mostly, the rest is in the customer's mind. People rarely challenge this grey area, especially cash rich time poor customers.

I challenged WD on an engine pull and a gearbox rebuild and got what I wanted (mostly), it was very tough but I got there, including putting an A.C.E converter in, it can be done. I think the trick is to first make the case for replacement and get them to admit it, only then can you say "good, I'll add more on top for betterment". Then stand your ground, be very pushy and learn the rules/laws.

Bam, you now have my undivided interest. This is exactly what I was hoping to hear. If statute was on my side and I wasnt relying on hearsay and/or urban myth then I would take the issue further as it would be solicitors time and not my own that would be occupied. Is there anything you can signpost me to?

[cfcdoc]

regardless ... the mighty Audi warranty didnt cover my last C5 Plus intercoolers when the went poop...

Well , CCP did say as long as it wasnt stone damage or corrosion related, which is understandable.

[HYFR]

ahhh they claimed stone damage on mine

[chunky79]

ahhh they claimed stone damage on mine

Guessing yours hadn't failed like they normally do in the bottom corner then dave?

[cfcdoc]

ahhh they claimed stone damage on mine

Guessing yours hadn't failed like they normally do in the bottom corner then dave?

Well apologies need to be sent in DK`s direction as according to inchcape this morning, intercooler is not covered but the situation still remains re wagners. I can install them and it wouldnt necessarily invalidate any subsequent warranty claim unless they can prove the increased throughput of air(? increased bp/output as a consequence) caused premature failure of that part that an OEM intercooler would not..

Do I, dont I, best part of 3 year warranty left, is it worth it, I like the idea of driving back from oxford with an engine thats breathing easier but dont like the inevitable stand-off that is almost certain to occur in the future.

Bam you have a point and it probably is a scare tactic as the blanket ban position has changed when I quoted betterment but I`ll let Doug have a look and take it from there.


Whats covered under engine cooling system:

Radiator
Oil cooler
Heater Matrix
Water Pump
Viscous fan coupling
Thermostat and Thermostat Housing.

[Shoppinit]

Now you get the worst of both worlds. Rubbish OEM sieves intercoolers and not paid for by warranty. The waggers are fantastic for peace of mind. When you see them in the flesh you go "aahhhhh, so that's what the fuss is all about".

[swannny]

So has it been proved that wagners shorten the turbo life, or is just calculated guessing?

[gingertoss]

Wagners "should" increase turbo life as they don't leak (unless hit by stones etc). Indeed brand new Audi OEM coolers have been known to leak as the end tank to core interface is <beep>.
Wagners are fitted as a reliabilty fix, they can also reduce inlet temps as well. If you then have your map altered to take advantage of the inlet temp reduction you will get a slight increase in performance but only if you have other supporting mods.

[Mr V10]

So they agreed to Wagners, you called back, they said no we will only replace with OEM, so you called back and managed to get them to refuse intercoolers all together!? Doc, fit the Wagners, the inspector won't even be able to tell the difference.
Swanny - The OEM intercoolers that will unknowingly leak every month will have more chance of killing the turbos then the Wagners. The warranty company are arguing that the extra power the Wagners might give would put more strain on the engine components, just like a remap would, for example.

[sweegie]

Fitting Wagners, or any other good quality intercooler will have 2 primary benefits. Firstly, all intercoolers are restrictive in some way and you will loose pressure across them. This means that if the ECU asks for 1 bar of charge pressure at the manifold, the turbo may well have to produce 1.2 bar of pressure to account for the losses in transmission. The less restrictive the intercooler is, the less work the turbo has to do to get the requested pressure to the inlet manifold.

Secondly, as well as being less restrictive and thus producing less heat in the first place, they will also remove heat from the air flow more efficiently. This has 2 good benefits, as hot air is less dense and robs you of power as well as being more prone to pre-ignition (knocking) which will cause the ecu to reduce timing.

Good quality intercoolers are a never ever a bad thing, and there's absolutely no way on this earth that fitting a quality intercooler will shorten a turbos life; if anything it will make it easier.

[cfcdoc]

So they agreed to Wagners, you called back, they said no we will only replace with OEM, so you called back and managed to get them to refuse intercoolers all together!? Doc, fit the Wagners, the inspector won't even be able to tell the difference.
Swanny - The OEM intercoolers that will unknowingly leak every month will have more chance of killing the turbos then the Wagners. The warranty company are arguing that the extra power the Wagners might give would put more strain on the engine components, just like a remap would, for example.

The boy (I) done good......

Sweegie ...i am not worried about turbo life...its the grey area regarding improved bhp and whether this increases output beyond tolerability and shortens life span of other working parts which i can see them clinging to ..

I will speak to Doug..i am leaning on the side of some fettling

[sweegie]

Sweegie ...i am not worried about turbo life...its the grey area regarding improved bhp and whether this increases output beyond tolerability and shortens life span of other working parts which i can see them clinging to ..

I'd counter them with the fact that a standard car running a standard map with standard intercoolers dyno'd with an outside air temp of -10c will make higher bhp than the same car with wagners on a hot day What they going to say? Sorry, we're not paying up because your intake air temp was too cold?

In know what you mean though, infuriating as it is. grrrr.

ps. i was more referring to swannys comments on turbo life, hence the explanation. Hope you get it sorted and they stump up for a contribution to the Wagners. It really is a no brainer for all concerned IMHO.