RS6 C5 Gearbox oil choices

[simors6]

Hi guys I was wondering how you got on with this fluid change as I have Just been trying to diagnose a problem with me box, and was taking out the fluid and its red,,,, that's not right is it.
Got a bottle 1l of the the Mobil lt and its a yellowt colour. Am I correct in assuming that some has went for like a coma equivalent that claims to conform to the box standards or can you use the red stuff in these boxes?
Any pointers would be massively appreciated before I have to fork out for a double load of fluid for a box flush

[Nobby]

Shouldn't be red. Thats the wrong stuff - like power steering fluid. Only ever use the stuff at the top of this thread.

I've used Pentosin ATF from Powerenhancer and you can get a good deal from them sometimes. As for a total flush you'd need to drain all the old, fill with new stuff, cycle through the gears atleast a few times then drain and refill. There will probably still be some residue of the the red stuff in there.

[simors6]

Cheers Nobby, that what I thought

[Frustratedracer]

Interestingly, i have just had my g'box rebuilt by Chester Transmisions and they recommended a Dexron 6 spec fluid.
When i got the trans back there was a small amount of fluid left in it as they do a pressure test after rebuilding and also to lube the TC, and it was red.
When i phoned to check before filling it with the Audi stuff, Graham at CT said the Dexron 6 they use is red but it is totally compatible with the Audi stuff.
So, i would have to assume if you had a box rebuilt and fitted by CT, the fluid would be red.
These guys have a good rep, so if red is good enough for them....

[Shoppinit]

Hmm, I wouldn't be happy with the wrong fluid in my box.

Might be worth contacting ZF. I have seen some sensible responses to similar queries. Eg.

Thank you for your enquiry regarding the correct grade of oil for the ZF 5HP24 automatic transmission as used in the Jaguar application. My reply is based solely on the design and technical requirements of the 5HP24. Cost of the oil is not an influencing factor, as you will appreciate; ZF also has to purchase the oil from Esso.

The design specification of the 5HP24 requires the use of Esso LT 71141 and is filled for life. There is no alternative or equivalent oil, Esso is the only supplier of LT 71141. Under normal operation, the oil is changed after 10 years or 100, 000 mls.

The transmission was not designed to run on Dexron III and if installed you run the risk of premature failure. The transmission is equipped with a sophisticated torque converter lockup control (TCC) system and the correct oil specification is critical to its function and operation. One of the main functions of the oil is to provide the correct coefficient of friction and cooling of the torque converter lockup lining during regulated slip conditions. The longevity of the lockup lining would be adversely affected by the use of Dexron III and in most cases deterioration in shift quality and lockup engagement is also experienced.

I hope these points’ help you make the correct decision to use Esso LT 71141 which will continue protect the longevity of your transmission. The use of alternative oils can only be considered as false economy.

ZF Great Britain Ltd
info.zfgb@zf.com

source

That was quite a long time ago, though, and they've since put their own brand (Lifeguard5) on the LT 71141.

[Nobby]

Pentosins new ATF1 LV (low viscosity) is apparently red

http://www.pentosin.net/specsheets/Pentosin_ATF1LV.pdf

Doesn't list any equivalent part numbers though and the specs are slightly different to normal ATF1

http://www.pentosin.net/specsheets/pentosin_atf1.pdf

[Mɐʇʇ]

There's quite a few Dexron 6 oils that are both red and list LT 71141 as the spec that I don't recall seeing a couple of years back.

It's a bit like one of my old boat engines - the spec says run Straight Mineral 40 Weight oil in it. Which, these days is utter bullshit. It's a big block chevrolet, and if I want the cams to survive, a good synth oil is streets ahead. But there's a <beep> load of people still paying for the mercruiser mineral 40 oil.

I absolutely wouldn't compromise on the 71141 spec - this is a must. But these days, I don't feel that the original Esso 71141 is the only option as other manufacturers have now got up to speed. It's arguable, that based on the age & experience of these gearboxes now, that some alternative ones could even have a better additive package to improve longevity - but that just hypothetical.

That said - why chance it. A car with working gearbox is worth maybe 10K. One with a shagged gearbox is 5K. For the sake of spending an extra 30 quid on the gearbox oil once every other year, why compromise - it's easy to get the right Mobil 71141 oil.

[sweegie]

The box needs ZF Lifeguard 5 fluid. Many people make fluid to this spec, however Pentosyn supplied the factory fill.

I have Motul fluid in my car, and have had for near on 60k miles. It's red and works very nicely, as testiment to the 140k on the original box now....

[Mɐʇʇ]

Do you wanna capitalise it as well?

[ahoooga]

Hmm, I wouldn't be happy with the wrong fluid in my box.

That's worthy of a :snigger:

[simors6]

Right so let me try and get this straight, Mobil lt is the box standard as recommended by the manufacturer, but it's all made by pentosins.
I would say the 1ltr of lt I have looks slightly thinner than the red stuff .
The pentosin atf is the same as Mobil lt, but the pentosin lv is red

[sweegie]

Do you wanna capitalise it as well?

Bold and underlined too if it helps

[sweegie]

Right so let me try and get this straight, Mobil lt is the box standard as recommended by the manufacturer, but it's all made by pentosins.
I would say the 1ltr of lt I have looks slightly thinner than the red stuff .
The pentosin atf is the same as Mobil lt, but the pentosin lv is red

All this stuff is made to standards, and then certified for end use application. The LT 71141 fluid is certified by ZF for use in the following product groups (no joke...)

* Marine Transmissions
* Manual transmissions, double-clutch transmissions and automatic transmissions for cars
* Powershift transmissions, type Ecomat, for buses, trucks, and special vehicles
* Transmissions for rail vehicles
* Transmissions and axles for lift-trucks

ZF themselves state the following fluids are ok in the 5HP24 box:

According to spare part number of vehicle manufacturer:
=> ZF-LIFEGUARDFLUID 5 (in big capitals) (ZF No. S671 090 170)
=> Audi / VW Oil No. G 052162 A1 / A2 / A6
=> BMW Oil No. 8322 9407807
=> Citroen Oil No. Z 000169756
=> Jaguar Oil No. JLM 20238
=> Mercedes Benz Oil No. A0019892203
=> Peugeot Oil No. Z 000169756
=> Porsche Oil No. 999.917.547.00

Clear as mud yet?

If you're worried, go to Audi and get them to supply you. Then get it blessed by a priest. Then sacrifice a chicken, chant some haitian voodoo sh!t, and fill the box with the magic goo.

[simors6]

Go to Audi . Sorry mate you must have confused me with someone who likes to bend over and take up the tail pipe.
Went to Audi for the diff fluid and that was enough.
I did own an s6 a few years back in which I repaired the box (clutch drum failure) and at that time I went to Sussex autos, as I did this time round.
It was only when I started to drain the box, the red fluid threw me a curved ball.
The thing is, I naught the car last year with and the fluid was replaced only a few thousand miles ago as he had what was a suspected solenoid fault- and I would say it's been running silky smooth with the red stuff, but I'm just not quite sure which red stuff it is.

It may be the motul stuff you use, maybe not.

If indeed the red stuff is actually better than the original spec then why not use it.

I suppose it's risk it with the red (although all appears to run silky smooth in it)
Or shell out for double the amount of standard stuff and flush the burger

[Mɐʇʇ]

Sweegie's exactly right.

FWIW, In my car I've run both Mobil LT71141 & also Audi branded stuff. A bought 20l from audi and on a per litre basis it worked out OK - mebbe they gave me a little discount, I dunno.
Both seemed to work absolutely fine with no perceptible difference in gear shift & TC lockdown etc.

If you're not 100% (is there anything in the history - an invoice etc), for the sake of it I'd replace the fluid with what you know to be the right stuff - it takes about an hour to do. Less if you've got a proper lift. And also Sweegie knows his stuff, so if he says the Motul stuff is good, it is.