Tappet noise and treatments?

[R32tom]

Only happens for me if it's not started for a few days. Then only lasts about 3 seconds after start up. Can live with that!

[Gripper1]

I'd be a little concerned about my oil viscosity/pressure/hydraulic tappets if the "noise" was carrying on after 3 seconds on start up, never mind a "min or so" of tappet sound. Obviously, there's a lot of tappets under the lid but I'd expect them all to be oil-filled and running quiet after a few seconds even on the coldest of starts.

Anyone else get this noise for a minute or more?

Like I say 2 months+ standing is not uncommon for the car and it should be started up every so often, but needs must. It's a non issue to me and nothing compared to the issues possibly brought on by going into the guts of the engine and upsetting a lot of other components/ancilliaries.

Start of the vicious circle to me and if all is generally well, leave it the hell alone

[Weiß-sechs]

Okay then, if everyone's happy with noisy tappets for over 60 seconds on start up that's good enough for me, I must be a bit paranoid in expecting them to be quiet after a couple of engine revolutions; to my untrained ear noise = wear and I imagine all sorts of metal on metal nastiness! (shudder)

I must have a good 'un and it's showing 130K + miles.

Understand what you're saying about not being turned over for quite some time (as is mine) but noisy tappets for more than a few seconds on start up would upset my yin & yang; but there again I get twitchy about leaving road salt on the bodywork.......I know, I know, I ought to get out more....

[Gripper1]

Metal on metal nastiness?

The camshaft is still seeing lubrication, just a slight lag from the lazy lifter causing a bit of backlash and the noise. Considering some older engines with solid lifters sounded like that from almost new and they did 1000's of miles until someone adjusted them without major damage. So 5sec-60 secs at idle every 2 months isn't a worry.

[Shoppinit]

Meh, who needs hydraulic lifters. I just adjusted the valve clearances on my M3 fwend's M3. Need to do mine now.

[north-star]

I have a noise from my 2003 RS6 Avant and the guy who looks after my car has said it's a bad hydraulic lifter, only thing being without stripping down the engine he cannot tell if it's from the exhaust side rockers arms or the inlet rocker arms.

He's also told me he can only source one of the two, we can source genuine exhaust side rockers arms for £200 each and we need 4 of them, however we are still to find the inlet ones and he said the cost to strip down and get to the parts only to find out it's the inlet ones that need replacing would be pretty big, i.e he estimated it would cost around £3k to do them all if we had the parts. Added to that, due to the mileage he cannot guarantee the other side won't go the same way in a few months

I'm guessing the only way i can fix this is to source second hand parts or an engine itself , but again no guarantee it doesn't get the same problem in the near future!

It's a huge pain in the arse for me as i've spnt thousands on maint etc in the last couple of years, engine and gearbox out job, loads replaced, belt, hoses, pulleys etc, the works!

Anyone had the same issue of late or can give me some guidance as to what i can do to make this a cost effective repair?

[Shoppinit]

Rocker arms? What rocker arms? I thought the cams on this engine pushed directly on the lifters (I could be wrong).

You sure your guy knows his stuff? Or maybe there’s a mixup in terminology.

What’s the noise you getting? Could be worn cam chain tensioners.

[north-star]

I trust him completely, he's been working on it and keeping it going for 7 years . P6 Performance up near Aberdeen, knows his way around Audis etc and builds his own B5 S4's etc

I will be typing it out wrong Here's a snippet of the message from him.....

I stripped down and removed the camshaft covers today, no signs of any chain hitting the covers or any other damage or wear, ran the borescope down to check every valve spring etc (as much as visible and not hidden) all looks and sounds fine. It would be nice to pinpoint it a bit better, particularly if the noise is from the camshaft lifters etc. That being said the lifter assemblies aren't traditional tappets, they're inbuilt units on big rocker arms and we need 4 x inlet and 4 x exhaust.

077109417N - Inlet x 4
077109417M - Exhaust x 4

You can't really hear anything when sitting idling, starts up with a usual very small rattle that goes in seconds etc, always been like that in the 7 years i've had her. You can't really hear much either at low, city speeds unless you give it a bit more welly or let the revs build up 3000 rpm and above as i put in some Wynns hydraulic lifter stuff in after an engine service and fresh oil etc and this quietened it down a fair bit, still all the power and that with no issues other than the ticking noise, no misfiring etc as yet and i'm obviously not using her much now.

I hope this makes a bit more sense?

[Shoppinit]

Ok. Gotcha. So not individual tappets but grouped into a wide holder. Weird.

So you only really hear it above 3000rpm? Must be pretty loud then.

Still worth checking the cam dephasers for wear on the tensioner pads.

[north-star]

Ok. Gotcha. So not individual tappets but grouped into a wide holder. Weird.

So you only really hear it above 3000rpm? Must be pretty loud then.

Still worth checking the cam dephasers for wear on the tensioner pads.

Grouped in two seperate banks with 4 lifters either side is how I read it. I will ask him about the cam dephasers but I’m sure he checked in about there and he can also her the noise coming down near the drivers side manifold area.

[Shoppinit]

Sometimes an exhaust leak can sound like a tappet noise.

Also, there's a baffle inside the exhaust manifold that can become un-welded and rattle around which would sound like a tappet, I guess.

I wonder if the faulty tappet could be replaced with a solid tappet, if that's what the problem is and a direct replacement is impossible to find. You'd have to be pretty careful with the cold gap, but it could work. That's what my M3 has. It's not particularly tappety when cold either.

Or maybe you could source a second hand tappet and see if it can be dismantled and repaired. MIght be possible to machine a new one or a repair kit.

You should probably check oil pressure, too.

[Nobby]

I’ve been looking into this for a while. Our engines use a larger rocker arm which then has a roller bearing integrated into it.

It also has 2 smaller lifters which you can remove. Not that many other Audis have this sort of configuration.

The lifter themselves aren’t that bad to remove, but you need to remove the whole cambelt and camshafts. That in itself is just a lot of work and costly. New bolts for the cam carriers are about £50. The lifters are about £25 each and ofcourse we have 40’of them.

The carriers are much more difficult to remove. They are fixed in place by a long rod (1 for exhaust and 1 for inlet) that goes all the way down the head. The only way to remove these is to either take the heads off or to remove the cats front end. For rhe passenger side they slide out backwards toward the firewall so only option is to take the head off or remove the engine.

The large rockers only seem available from Audi. They are about £200 each and come with the lifters. We’d need 20 of them.

I’ve bought 20 new lifters and a spare rocker just to see how they work. I’ve also got an ultrasonic cleaner so was planning on doing my cambelt then swapping all the exhaust lifters for new, plus cleaning all the inlet ones.

I bought a second hand rocker arm with lifters and was surprised at how well they cleaned up. When I find Tim I will post photos.

[Shoppinit]

Ah, so the tappets come out of the rockers? And are available separately? That's encouraging.

[Nobby]

Here’s some photos. The rocker I have is for the exhaust valves which rides on one cam lobe and has is for 2 valves. (Diagram parts 26/27)

The inlet ones have 2 lobes and are for 3 valves. (Diagram part 25/27)

I’ve bought 16 new exhaust valves - plus have 2 second hand ones. I’ve already bought the seals so I could take the driver side rods out diagram 21/22.

Ideally I’d take them all out and give them a clean as they carry the oil feeds.

[Nobby]

The lifters only actually press down about 3 or 4mm but a stuck in one would cause tapping.

Worst case if you have tapping it could be the roller bearing in the rocker itself.