Am I wrong to believe the N80 (item 35) is not correctly depicted and seems upside-down (=connector towards the left) on this picture? How is yours?
Thanks!
N80 upside down? Got doubts
N80 upside down? Got doubts
Hi,
Am I wrong to believe the N80 (item 35) is not correctly depicted and seems upside-down (=connector towards the left) on this picture? How is yours?
Thanks!
Am I wrong to believe the N80 (item 35) is not correctly depicted and seems upside-down (=connector towards the left) on this picture? How is yours?
Thanks!
RS6 C5 Avant 2003 Daytona Grey
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap
Re: N80 upside down? Got doubts
Yeah, that's how it looks. Interesting that.
This is mine:
This is mine:
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: N80 upside down? Got doubts
Thanks for the pic Shopp! Mine is no longer the oem one which died but the Bosch equivalent. Supposedly they should be identical in terms of function, but they may have the electrical connector the other way round, hence the question. I stupidly throw the oem one away so I can't tell for sure.
Anyway, from my findings the N80 -when not powered- acts like a non return valve with a spring. Meaning if you apply enough vaccum on one side (or pressure on the other), air will pass through. So installing the thing the wrong way could lead to problems.
If you don't have better things to do with your life for the next couple of minutes, here's my reasoning for choosing the right direction. My best bet is to install the valve the opposite way of the air flow (canister -> engine) so that when vaccum is applied either from the front of the engine at idle (throttle valve) or from the back (turbo intake) during boost, the N80 stays always closed, except of course when it's powered in which case air can pass through. I suppose it's a good assumption to believe the valve is strong enough to counteract both the spring and the air flow, or? Comments?
Thanks for reading up to here!
Anyway, from my findings the N80 -when not powered- acts like a non return valve with a spring. Meaning if you apply enough vaccum on one side (or pressure on the other), air will pass through. So installing the thing the wrong way could lead to problems.
If you don't have better things to do with your life for the next couple of minutes, here's my reasoning for choosing the right direction. My best bet is to install the valve the opposite way of the air flow (canister -> engine) so that when vaccum is applied either from the front of the engine at idle (throttle valve) or from the back (turbo intake) during boost, the N80 stays always closed, except of course when it's powered in which case air can pass through. I suppose it's a good assumption to believe the valve is strong enough to counteract both the spring and the air flow, or? Comments?
Thanks for reading up to here!
RS6 C5 Avant 2003 Daytona Grey
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap
Re: N80 upside down? Got doubts
The N80 valve is normally closed, and opened when it gets an electrical signal from the ECU. When the valve is open, it allows gas glow from the carbon canister towards the intake manifold. Otherwise, when the valve is closed, there is no flow at all in either direction.
On the OE valve, the "output" towards the intake is on the side of the connector. On your Bosch valve, I would have thought there would be an arrow indicating the flow direction.
On the OE valve, the "output" towards the intake is on the side of the connector. On your Bosch valve, I would have thought there would be an arrow indicating the flow direction.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: N80 upside down? Got doubts
Thanks for the comment, I'll search for any arrow or signs for air flow direction! 
Nevertheless I remain firm there's a blocking direction whereas the other allows air to pass provided enough pressure / vaccum is applied.
Nevertheless I remain firm there's a blocking direction whereas the other allows air to pass provided enough pressure / vaccum is applied.
RS6 C5 Avant 2003 Daytona Grey
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap
Re: N80 upside down? Got doubts
When you apply power to the valve, the solenoid will pull the actuator to open the valve. It will pull against the action of a spring device. When the valve is not powered, the solenoid will stop pulling and the spring will pull the valve closed. This is because the solenoid only pulls in one direction.
If you apply enough pressure then that will also compress the spring and open the valve.
If you apply enough pressure then that will also compress the spring and open the valve.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: N80 upside down? Got doubts
We totally agree on how the thing functions. Now, without the help of any arrow (I'll check as soon as I'm back home later this week), would you also agree on how it should be installed = blocking direction against air flow?
RS6 C5 Avant 2003 Daytona Grey
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap
Re: N80 upside down? Got doubts
I suspect we agree with each other, but I'm not clear on the meaning of the following:
1. Assuming that air flow is unimpeded in either direction when the valve is open, then it should be installed in such a way that the open valve cannot be sucked closed by normal flow (hard to measure).
2. The valve should only be in the opened state when there is 'vacuum' in the intake manifold. When the valve is supposed to be closed, we do not want the valve to open through the action of either vacuum or positive pressure (turbo on boost) at the manifold side. There is never going to be more than 1 bar of negative pressure for obvious reasons, but there might be more than 1bar of positive [relative] pressure depending on how extreme your turbo is. But I don't think there'd be much in it.
Conclusion: look for an arrow.
Couple of things concerning the installation direction of the valve:
1. Assuming that air flow is unimpeded in either direction when the valve is open, then it should be installed in such a way that the open valve cannot be sucked closed by normal flow (hard to measure).
2. The valve should only be in the opened state when there is 'vacuum' in the intake manifold. When the valve is supposed to be closed, we do not want the valve to open through the action of either vacuum or positive pressure (turbo on boost) at the manifold side. There is never going to be more than 1 bar of negative pressure for obvious reasons, but there might be more than 1bar of positive [relative] pressure depending on how extreme your turbo is. But I don't think there'd be much in it.
Conclusion: look for an arrow.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: N80 upside down? Got doubts
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: N80 upside down? Got doubts
lol I sure will!
Actually, due to the passive non-return valves (parts #23 in green in the pic below), air can only go one direction : from the canister to the engine. Except if something is broken, there's no way round this.
Sorry if I wasn't clear in my explanation, but having said the above ^^, vaccum can come either from the throttle valve (located at the front of the engine) at idle, or from the turbos intake (part #38) during boost. Of course we don't want the N80 to open because of vaccum, but only when the cpu decides so, hence the suggestion to have the N80 non return valve pointing to the opposite direction of the air flow to ensure air is blocked in all situations except when the valve is powered.
I hope it's better said and understandable?
Actually, due to the passive non-return valves (parts #23 in green in the pic below), air can only go one direction : from the canister to the engine. Except if something is broken, there's no way round this.
Sorry if I wasn't clear in my explanation, but having said the above ^^, vaccum can come either from the throttle valve (located at the front of the engine) at idle, or from the turbos intake (part #38) during boost. Of course we don't want the N80 to open because of vaccum, but only when the cpu decides so, hence the suggestion to have the N80 non return valve pointing to the opposite direction of the air flow to ensure air is blocked in all situations except when the valve is powered.
I hope it's better said and understandable?
RS6 C5 Avant 2003 Daytona Grey
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap
Re: N80 upside down? Got doubts
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: N80 upside down? Got doubts
Is it me, or does this show it being piped up different?
Re: N80 upside down? Got doubts
I wouldn't rely on the parts catalogue for technical information. Although you would expect it to be right.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
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