RS6 Timing belt replacement DIY
Re: RS6 Timing belt replacement DIY
That's why I think there is some confusion.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
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Banana man
- 1st Gear
- Posts: 62
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Re: RS6 Timing belt replacement DIY
This thread reminds me of this. 
Re: RS6 Timing belt replacement DIY
Hehe. Brilliant.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: RS6 Timing belt replacement DIY
Haha, yes that's a good one! 
RS6 C5 Avant 2003 Daytona Grey
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap
Re: RS6 Timing belt replacement DIY
There is so much sense in this post.
IchBautAuto wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:57 amIt might be reasonable to say that someone who does this every day for a living can get it within 12 degrees. That is "OK" but not optimal. I have 4 Audi, an A4, 2 x 2.7tt and a V8 and that's all the timing belts I do, so an average of 1 per year using 3 different techniques. I wouldn't even consider doing it without a crank pin and the cam bar, albeit I reckon I might be able to get a running tune without. Fact is that when the pins are in, the marks don't usually line up so using the marks instantly introduces an error.
My guess is that you have a confident mechanic who has a less than OCD attitude to accuracy. You wouldn't employ him in a race garage if you wanted to win, would you. That said, if you didn't have access to VCDS or whatever, you wouldn't even know if he did a great job or not. For the average Joe, if the car runs evenly with no fault lights its all good. We are in part a hostage to our own enthusiasm.
"not a professional engineer, mechanic and mechanist"
Re: RS6 Timing belt replacement DIY
I don't mind playing the fool, particularly if I learn something along the way. Could a bright mind clearly explain the different measuring blocks (those related to timings of course) as shown in VCDS:https://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/m_blocks/090-098.html. I'd like to get a deeper understanding of what's going on other than just checking a number and verify it's within specs.
In particular a reminder of the target values for our cars and which mechanical part is involved when the readings are not within tolerance would be great!
In particular a reminder of the target values for our cars and which mechanical part is involved when the readings are not within tolerance would be great!
RS6 C5 Avant 2003 Daytona Grey
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap
Re: RS6 Timing belt replacement DIY
Seems like a simple question, but the answer is not simple.
Have a look at this:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=104670
Have a look at this:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=104670
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: RS6 Timing belt replacement DIY
So the tl;dr version is that group 93 gives you the inlet cam timing relative to the crank (when not dephasing). The acceptable range is +/- 6 degrees. Zero is best, obvs.
Assuming no problem with your dephasers and assuming the chain is installed correctly, if the readings are not within spec then the exhaust cam positions are not set properly wrt the crank. This is because the inlet cams are slaved to the exhaust cams via the chain. When the dephaser isn't dephasing, they should be in sync. i.e. zero degrees difference between them (group 91 and 92 values)
There are no sensors on the exhaust cams, this is another reason why it's so important to make sure the timing is set according to procedure. There's no practical way of measuring the exhaust cam timing.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: RS6 Timing belt replacement DIY
Very informative, thanks! I still need to educate myself on the subject, but I start to see some light..
Following up on your latest post, and supposing the dephasers/chains have been properly installed, how do you make sure the exhaust cams are properly aligned ? I'm probably mixing things up, but where does the bar come into play?
Following up on your latest post, and supposing the dephasers/chains have been properly installed, how do you make sure the exhaust cams are properly aligned ? I'm probably mixing things up, but where does the bar come into play?
RS6 C5 Avant 2003 Daytona Grey
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap
Re: RS6 Timing belt replacement DIY
The bar locks the 2 exhaust cams in the correct position. With the crank locked at TDC you then you know the exhaust cams are timed correctly wrt crank.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: RS6 Timing belt replacement DIY
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: RS6 Timing belt replacement DIY
Still need to digest the information, but I'll get round this soon 
RS6 C5 Avant 2003 Daytona Grey
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap
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IchBautAuto
- 4th Gear
- Posts: 618
- Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:23 pm
- Location: Australia
Re: RS6 Timing belt replacement DIY
At the risk of being a pest, could I suggest that the statement above be taken with some additional detail added. The detail actually exists within the greater post but that sentence on it's own may mislead.
The crankshaft pin locks the crank in the necessary position. The timing belt drives the camshafts via two toothed belt pulley's. The pulleys are positioned on the camshaft via a taper so they are infinitely adjustable. The quote above is only true if the crank lock pin is in, the cam mark and the camshaft cap / head mark are aligned and the toothed belt is tight.
C5 RS6, Milltek and Wagners: B5 RS4 450 + HP: A4 1.8 GP TQS original: 1963 UNIMOG 404:
Re: RS6 Timing belt replacement DIY
I disagree. The cams have 2 flats on them to allow the precise positioning of the the thrust washer that the locking bar pins fit into. This means that if the cam locking bar is on then the cams are in the correct position.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
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IchBautAuto
- 4th Gear
- Posts: 618
- Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:23 pm
- Location: Australia
Re: RS6 Timing belt replacement DIY
Correct. I do this infrequently and looking at the parts drawings it showed a round hole. No doubt for simplicity!!
C5 RS6, Milltek and Wagners: B5 RS4 450 + HP: A4 1.8 GP TQS original: 1963 UNIMOG 404:
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