Re-Mapping and gearbox probs

[GaryC]

Some more food for thought for PaulM...

We replaced our RS6 in December with a 335d M-Sport Touring which we ordered without having driven one based on the expectation of doing more miles this year and the strength of a 330d test drive.

So far the 335d has far exceeded expectations. Performance wise there really is *very* little in it in give and take driving, although the RS6 would always have a slight edge on the move and a bigger one away from the lights. For a diesel it actually sounds pretty good too, though obviously not a patch on the V8. In terms of handling though the 335 is in a different league and feels fantastically balanced with almost porsche-like weight and feel of controls.

If noise and ultimate straight line thrust is the only concern then the Audi is still king, but add handling into the equation and the balance moves decisively to the BMW. 35mpg average and £340p.a. insurance are the icing on the cake.

[skiwi]

yeah, that might be true, but surely the issue is you are always having to say that? with the rs6 nobody asks you "how does it go?" they already know...

[MarkB]

So... how do the RS6 gearboxes handle the power of a remapped engine?

[GaryC]

yeah, that might be true, but surely the issue is you are always having to say that? with the rs6 nobody asks you "how does it go?" they already know...

To most people an RS6 is simply an audi estate car with big wheels that sounds a bit different. Surely this is one of the appeals of both RS6 and BMW '35d - the understated performance?

[GardinerG]

Indeed, but "most people" have no idea about cars at all. They sure wouldn't tell the difference between a 335d, 318i and an M3. But I digress, perhaps best of 3 laps round the nurburgring is in order? 535d vs RS6??

I had the wonderful opportunity to drive a TDI 2007 A6 yesterday (for the whole day) and what I "enjoyed" the most was the lovely vibration (and noise) the engine makes in traffic, and the 4,400 RPM readline of course cr4p. Shame about the engine as the rest of the car was lovely, I really liked the interior so am looking forward to the RS5/6.

Don't get me wrong, diesels are getting much better these days (especially the twin turbo units) but I still wouldn't buy one over a petrol engine unless I couldn't afford the petrol in the first place. Besides, we have the V10 Lambo units heading the RS way...

[skiwi]

well maybe if your observers are from an old-folks home! where i come from, the car is noticed, and noticed big time...

[W8PMC]

I think its unfair to compare a modded 535d with an standard RS6. If you compare modded versus modded, or standard versus standard, I think then the difference in performance and delivery will be very noticable.

Could not agree more, but it's not a modding competition.

The point (i think) was for a few hundred pounds you can get a 535d (or 335d) in general performance terms to sniffing distance of a standard RS6 & the Bimmer has so much more usable torque.

Of course the RS6 would win across country & in a straight line, modded or not, but the picture is a tad bigger than that.

An example, i had a run in on whilst driving my DMS M5 with a DMS 335i & although i must have had at least 180BHP on him, with the lower weight & extra torque, it was not until well over 150MPH that i started to real it in with any menace. Now this is real world driving, not drag strip or runway stuff.

For the best of both worlds, you'd not go far wrong with a DMS 535d & IIRC that's what the OP was asking.

Loved my RS6 & it was nothing short of insane, but car ownership & day to day performance cover far more than just the number of ponies inder the hood.

[W8PMC]

How long you looking to keep the RS4 paul, since i've been on this forum in a little over a year you've worked your way through 5 premium motors... fair play! also how does the rs4 compare to the rs6 as i've given this serious consideration but my concerns are:

~ Pence per grin... worth the value of difference in £'s?

~ Interior space... a major concern for me as i'm a tall bugger?

~ Normally aspirated Vs turbocharged... I love the punch of the RS6 and was dissapointed driving the NA AMV8

~ Boys toys... RS6 heated everything, stereo quality, folding mirrors, tv etc Vs RS4 standard stuff?

~ Autobox... can't believe that i'm saying this, considering i bought my rs6 when in my 20's, but its bloody good such as when in queing traffic not to have a clutch, i admit that the tiptronic and sport mode is not as involving as a manual box, but I'd say 70% of my driving is the more standard stuff and the tip is more than acceptable to me when having a bit more of a spirited run.

~ Saloon or Avant?? RS6 avant was way too big for me as a batchelor boy with no kids, but saloon just right for my adventures (rally, surf, bike, hike, tent, general travel & weekend stuff etc). In rs4 guise i reckon i'd need an avant for all my boys toys n tat??

~ Running cost... suppose brakes and cam belt are the significant differences? also still every 10k miles service?

~ Overall ownership experience... RS6 has a bit more road presence and almost cult status, RS4 is much fresher inside and out but i'm a bit dissapointed that they've not distinguished it as much as they did in b5 guise

cheers

steve

Not quite, but close. Owned the RS6 for close to 2years, the 535d M-Sport for 4 months, the E60 M5 for 9mths, the A8 for 3 mths & the RS4 for a couple of weeks.

Perhaps the wrong place for me to comment & most on here will say "he's bound to say that given his current car is an RS4", however taking all the above cars into account, so far the RS4 is head & shoulders ahead in terms of most of your points.

The M5 was awesome & being DMS'd meant 540BHP which put it on a par with my Stage III RS6, however the M5 being RWD limited the fun as the weather/raods had to be A1 to exploit that power. A good few times i'd get nailed at the lights by far lesser cars as i just could not lay the power down unless bone dry roads & powering round bends was just plain scary. The RS4 does not have the same limitations.

In a straight line of course the M5 & RS6 were quicker but the 60/40 Quattro & much lower weight of the RS4 make it feel multiples better on the road as regards handling & it feels so tight & far more sports car like that either the RS6 or RS4. If you recall, on TG, Mr Clarkson stated that in the RS4, Audi had finally made an RS that felt like a sports car on the road.

Although no Turbo punch, the Cams etc are set to provide an interesting power band at 6K RPM which kinda feels a bit turboesque & bear in mind it red-lines at 8K which IIRC is 1K higher than the RS6. The sound that eminates is also much much better than the stock RS6 & stock M5.

Toys are back to Audi stupidity, being the cool toys are almost all extras. I have Tech Pack which gives Bose, DVD Nav, Adaptive Headlights & CD Changer. I had the BlueTooth module this week & apart from Tracker that's it really. TBH the Audio is a tad better than Bose in the RS6, but not as good as Logic7 in the BM & the other toys such as TV etc. are not things i miss. Other stuff like folding mirrors, auto lights/wipers, folding & dipping mirrors etc. are all available as options but i've not got those & don't miss them. The NAV is better than BMW's, but i do miss Voice Activation/Recognition. Also have the Optics pack on mine, so the chrome grille, rear valance & window surrounds are all black which i personally prefer.

Where the interior does move way ahead is the flat bottom sports steering wheel, as it feels so small & tight, great to hold & look at with neat buttons to alter the DIS & the Sports button. Also the Bucket seats are sublime & have adaptive thigh & side/shoulder bolsters. However for the larger person these seats would be a very tight fit, but form, function & looks they're amazing.

Being a manual it is a tad frustrating in slow traffic etc. but this is more than compensated when out on the open road, it feels great in the hand & with very small throws it's a pleasure to use.

Think that's about it really. The B7 RS4 is not perhaps any better than the RS6 although personally i do prefer it, but it is considerably more nimble, more modern inside & out & performs very well OOTB. I like it & that's all that matter to me & i loved my RS6 as well.

[GardinerG]

Paul, I concur about the RS4, it's a great car and feels truly sporty. I drove an RS4 Avant (blue with black optics) with a view to buying it. My hand slipped on the aluminium bit on the bottom of the wheel twice during test drive, so I found this annoying. The S button, is that just so they can be like BMW and the M button? pointless IMHO. The two reasons I didn't go ahead with it were the lack of DSG or similar (my wife can't drive a manual and I don't want to be the one driving back from the pub every time!), and the £20,000+ price difference which is earmarked for the new RS5/6 Perhaps more the latter though!

[SteveH]

Cheers Paul, good write up

[W8PMC]

Paul, I concur about the RS4, it's a great car and feels truly sporty. I drove an RS4 Avant (blue with black optics) with a view to buying it. My hand slipped on the aluminium bit on the bottom of the wheel twice during test drive, so I found this annoying. The S button, is that just so they can be like BMW and the M button? pointless IMHO. The two reasons I didn't go ahead with it were the lack of DSG or similar (my wife can't drive a manual and I don't want to be the one driving back from the pub every time!), and the £20,000+ price difference which is earmarked for the new RS5/6 Perhaps more the latter though!

I can understand that & i'm still sat in pole position on the RS6 pre-list at my local dealers.

The Ali wheel bottom didn't bother me, as i learnt a couple of years ago how to throw the steering whell around in anger, so the flat bottom only ever gets touched when i'm parking. But i can see it being a tad annoying for folks with different wheel grip habits.

The S Button to me makes perfect sense as it only tightens the throttle response & alters the exhaust valve (purley for extra noise), so when driving on the motorway, you really don't want the extra exhaust noise so can turn it off for a more relaxing environment in the cabin, as the noise difference is very noticable. Probably also a take on BMW's M-Button

[GardinerG]

I guess I just hate that M button on the M5, I mean... it turns the Heads Up Display on FFS. I don't think I would go back to not having one on all the time.

I see your point about the motorway driving Paul, 99% of mine is A n B roads so I guess I would just turn the switch round!

[Paulm]

Old post this one

After messing around in a E39 M5 for a few months I bought a 535d in the end. Must admit I really like it. Slower than the M5 but it is still standard at the moment.

I think the M5 put me off the RS6 due to fuel. I don't do many miles but it started to wind me up. Every time I went away the car was empty. Most of my driving is sensible stuff and even then it just drank fuel. I would think the RS6 would be the same.

If I bought the wife a car it would prob be different but I cant see the point in having 2 cars when I only need one.

Must be getting old

[Golffather]

Great write up Paul and very well summarised.....alas I'm more in RS6 price range than the B7 RS4 but love em.