Possible Engine Rebuild

[crooki]

This is my 1st post - so - Hi guys.
I own a 100k mile 2002 2.7 RS4, maintained regardless of cost, which had the timing belt replaced at 80k miles by an Audi dealer. At 100k miles the 'roller bearing', which I think is called the idler roller, not the tensioning bearing, as it does nothing but guide the belt, failed. The car is now with Audi, in bits, as I am trying to negotiate with Audi uk.

This failure, of what I thought was a 'sealed for life bearing' has resulted in new heads, new turbos and a cost of between £5,000 and £7,000. Audi uk have said that this roller bearing is not part of the recommended timing belt 'fitting pack' and therefore they are not responsible - any thoughts. They have offered me 25% of parts and £500.

Could there be a potential failure waiting to happen on other RS4s. Audi have said that they do not know of other problems however there do not seem to be many 100k + high milage cars around.

If possible I would like to know what milages other members cars have done and any thoughts on my 'little' problem.

[lengster1]

It seems to be a grey area as to what they change for a cambelt service,some do literaly the belt others do belt idlers tensioner and water pump,i was get paranoid about a faint wirring noise on mine at 58k only 18k after cambelt being done,a little digging found it had had belt and tensioner only,so i had it all done again changing all rollers tensioner and water pump,the noise is still there and may be the viscous fan,but at least in my head i know its all ok,I had the same sitiuation as you with a vauxhall the belt failed midway a service interval i got a big F off from them,but audi gaurantee there work for 2 years dont they? This is how i can almost justify there labour charges!! Its a good sign they are offering something you just need to improve it!! Good luck

[crooki]

Thanks
Audi have now agreed to speak to their technical department and come back to me. In the meantime they have suggested that I write to Jeremy Hicks their CEO to try and improve on the offer. I think that this componant should be a scheduled replacement when the belt is replaced. Will keep forum updated on outcome.

[confusionhunter]

i find it very unlikely it may need "new Heads", maybe new valves but normally the two exhuast and middle valve bend, assuming the valves havent snapped then the heads should be perfectly serviceable, I would have thought.... I would take it at face value that you need new heads. Id want to see some evidence?!

[derdle]

I think you'll find that most forum members will automatically replace everything at the front of the engine at every belt service, including water pump.

It might not be an item scheduled for replacement when the original schedules were drawn up (probably 1999 ish) but subsequent experience should have shown them that it should be a recommended procedure.

I would have thought that the warranty should cover it. It is either a failure of a component that should never fail/manufacturing fault (if a sealed for life component) or it should have been replaced by the last servicing dealer if it became a recommendation.

Paul

[fade2grey]

Funny, I've just had the belt let go on the S4 (92k miles) but from an independent (other audi dealer) investigation it looks like they are fingering the people who fitted the belts on mine (Audi dealer...)

http://rs246.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB ... d9476394f1

[okkim]

This is straight from the Audi official repair manual:

(60 000 km) In addition to Inspection Service:
Toothed belt, tensioning roller, idler wheel and tensioning lever for camshaft drive: Replace (V6 2.7 litre engines ASJ, AZR)

So it means that all the bearing rollers must be changed. I think that your Audi service tries to screw you! (water pump is also very recommended to change)

[lengster1]

Now that is interesting! Can anyone confirm if thats the case in the uk? It would certainly help your case crooki

[okkim]

It must be the case in every country because the engines are also same in every country. And that manual doesn't say anything about UK or Germany.

[crooki]

Thanks guys - this info is of great help. Real thanks to Okkim - is that the RS4 Audi official repair manual or the single turbo 2.7. I don't know what V6 2.7 litre engines ASJ, AZR stands for. I know it could mean the same thing but I would just like to get my facts right.

[crooki]

..........does anyone have an official Audi RS4 [B5] repair manual that they can give me a 'quote' from. Thanks again

[RS4Kev]

not sure how official this is but it might help - see page 12

http://data.rs246.com/Downloads/AudiRS4 ... 0Guide.pdf

[crooki]

Thanks Kev.
Quote UNDER REPAIR MEASURES - "At 60,000 km service intervals, the toothed belt, tensioning roller, guide roller and tensioning lever for the camshaft drive must be replaced (see current service schedule)".
I did see the front end of the engine when it was out but I cannot remember if there were any other rollers other than the ones above. Is the idler roller the same as the quide roller? Is it at about 4 o'clock as you view from the front.
Sorry to be a pain but this realy is helping me. Thanks again.

[okkim]

The ASJ and AZR means the 2.7 V6 RS4 engines. There are no 2.7 single turbo engines in RS4. That quote is from Elsawin.

Idle roller is the same as guide roller. Here is a photo of the engine, where the rollers are visible. The most left in the photo is tensioner, then under the "golden" roll is the guide roller. The golden one is water pump.

Timing belt other photo: close up. The hydraulic tensioner is on the left, and that should be changed also in the service.